Trial by media circus

[Maatandosiris]

The first thing to say is anyone who has committed rape absolutely needs to be brought to justice. The criminal
justice system needs to become more effective in protecting all victims of crime.

However, AIBU unreasonable to think that this weekends story about RB has been sinister for many other reasons, none of which are to do with RB.

Firstly the SM posts whipping people into a frenzy of some big reveal like some secret album release. Clues planted through various carefully placed posts, giving just enough detail to let people work things out (plus making people suggest other names) . It was an absolute circus, in the case of rape it turned accusations of serious crime into entertainment, no thought how anyone would be affected, whether ultimately guilty or innocent (maybe c4/The Times were trying to get new stories). Extremely bad taste at one end of the spectrum, devastating for innocent people at the other.

The ultimate agenda of both The Sunday Times and C4 is to make money. That’s it, neither is set up as the states arm of justice. There’s no inbuilt checks and balances. Yet somehow they are allowed to name an individual, accuse them of crimes (and effectively say they are guilty) without any of the safeguards and checks and balances of the criminal justice system applying.

People have lost all sense of justice. We have a man accused of something, an hour and a half of heavily hyped TV which holds some accusations but mainly a character assassination, The Sunday Times probably selling many more copies/getting many more subscribers with more of the sane one sided accusations.

Even on Mumsnet we have people already calling him a Rapist, people feeding into the frenzy of “he’s a creep”, “he’s a sex pest” etc etc. in other words, convicting him in their minds before this has gone anywhere near a court or jury.

How will this ever now be a fair trial? How will they find a jury who can 100% not have their views affected by this whole circus? If he is guilty will there ever be a safe conviction, how can we be confident that real justice has been done? What’s the risk of any conviction being overturned? This is not in the interests of either the alleged victim or the alleged perpetrator.

Questions are circulating all over SM as to the agendas at play. It’s fairly clear that the Sunday Times has been searching out victims. What were they saying to these people? What promises have been made?

if a crime has been committed this should be with the criminal justice system not Saturday night prime time TV with an associated heavy advertising campaign.

Im not sure whether RB is guilty or innocent, but that’s not what this post is about. AIBU to think that the way this witch hunt (which is what it is regardless of whether RB sinks or floats) is abhorrent and flies in the face of justice and that this has far wider and scarier implications for society than just this case. Who or what is next?

actually whoever mentioned Cliff Richard not working, is wrong, he is Still working, despite being 82 @Maatandosiris

Tell me you know nothing about either the criminal justice system or how to make a documentary without telling me… And if they had somehow persuaded the police to agree to this access and the women to waive their right to anonymity (which is enshrined in law, by the way) and be filmed going through the second most traumatic event of their lives, all the mSm iS bAD twits would be wailing about how exploitative such a programme is. Just say you’re a fanboy/girl and have done. We sheeple already see you.

Bringing out a new album apparently. Cliff Richard has said he'd never appear on the BBC again which Is fair.

Well you should fear things like this. Manipulating the public to find someone guilty before a trial.

Maybe you should review history and look at all the times this kind of thing was unchecked before.

By all means, organisations can be reviewed for adequate safeguarding but this is not what this is.

if he is an obnoxious misogynist we need to look at why he was still popular- it wasn’t exactly secret, Maybe we need to look more widely at the cult of celebrity.

so how did you feel
about this kind of hounding (although to a lesser extent) of Caroline Flack. Was that ok? I mean the police were actually involved in that rather than journalists ringing round to find victims.

It's beyond depressing, isn't it?

I will never understand why so many women stand up for these men, or make excuses, or cast doubt on the claims of other women. Every woman I've ever discussed it with has had at least one, sometimes several, experience of being groped or worse.

Maybe those who refuse to believe it are the tiny minority who've never had such an experience.

At the time he said he never wanted to be public again. It affected him greatly. Were you ok with the BBCs actions

why?
because it was cliff richard?

Exactly detailed descriptions. No independent analysis. No independent corroboration. It sounds harrowing from one side but i would want to hear them under cross examination. I am not saying he hasn’t done anything but i can’t say I know beyond reasonable doubt.

I have actually sat on the jury of a rape trial many years ago. Really awful and sad. We sat and listened to the evidence, we debated carefully but we found them not guilty. There was zero evidence that there was no consent and the woman’s behaviour indicated they were upset as the man was a tool and didn’t want to take the relationship further. I stand by the acquittal.

I also have done a law degree which did cover rape and sexual assault.

We already know through people posting on here journalists have been contacting individuals and if their testimony did not match the journalists narrative they weren’t contacted again
You make no sense @Maatandosiris

The fact he didn't rape every woman he encountered is totally irrelevant. Its not a red flag in the investigative process ffs. The burglar that stole from my house didn't steal from anyone else in my street. That didn't make him less guilty of the crime he committed against me!

Maybe you should actually read the posts. I’ve said he might or might not be guilty. I have said it’s about more than RB. There is no standing up for men, But there is standing up for justice and the rule of law. I don’t see why it’s so difficult to see the difference.

Exactly - a load of lies whipped up on social media which has none of the checks, balances and regulations that the traditional mainstream media has.

At the time, I remember threads where people were saying ‘why aren’t the BBC reporting this? Why is she being ignored in the MSM? It’s a conspiracy etc etc’.

But no, it was all bollocks. It’s pretty likely proper journalists (not TY / X / Rumble) looked into the Elle story, couldn’t find any evidence and so didn’t publish.

Damned if they do and damned if they don’t…

I make perfect sense, you’re just not understanding the point. the journalists had no intention on presenting a balanced view and they were clearly ringing round trying to find people who after the call claimed to be victims.

Don't move the goal posts - you said no evidence and as someone who has been in a jury and done a law degree you know that testimony is evidence.

I'm well aware of the burden of evidence needed for a guilty verdict in a criminal trial thanks, don't assume that I and others don't just because we think Brand has a case to answer and aren't making excuses for him to avoid justice.

But there is standing up for justice and the rule of law

But justice and the rule of law doesn't stand up for victims of sexual crime, which is why we have this situation.

They weren't making a biopic!

It was an investigation into allegations.
The accounts of other people with different experiences are irrelevant to the investigation.

Also, there is evidence other than testimony from the woman who was raped. She went to a rape crisis centre.

Proper journalists like Martin Bashir for Panorama on the BBC you mean?

Or maybe real investigative techniques like phone hacking?

if the usual channels are barred to you because of the Power of the perpetrator, sometimes you have no other choice.

So you think the women are lying, even the woman who went to a rape crisis centre? Why would she do that if she wasn't raped?

Ah I see, 90% of the programme was dedicated to people wittering on how awful the man was. But obviously this was nothing about presenting a picture of his character🤦‍♀️

I remember that too. MNHQ was accused of all sorts during that time because they were deleting threads where people were posting the FB posts of Ellie Williams.

They explained several times that there was an investigation underway and the discussions couldn't take place but you still had posters accusing them of a cover-up or not caring about VAWG or something dodgy going on behind the scenes.

I thought it was bollocks the minute I saw the FB posts.

Totally agree with this…..it’s like Trump all over again. He’s claiming this is ‘fake news’ and ‘mainstream media is out to get him’
His ‘followers’ will never believe any of the allegations against him.
perhaps he’s known about the investigations which must have taken years…and tried to reinvent himself as this self-styled ‘guru’. Seems to have worked with some sections of the public.

Putting aside that this is exactly what the police would do - speak to anyone and everyone connected to a suspected criminal to find out if they had seen, heard or experienced anything relevant to the investigation - why would these women be ‘potentially vulnerable’ if they hadn’t been abused by him?

There’s some video going round of a women who ‘spent a weekend’ with Brand, saying that she was contacted by the journos but didn’t respond because he had been a gentleman to her. It’s being used like some sort of proof that they are digging dirt - they aren’t. They are doing their job by following leads and asking for information. That she had a fun, consensual weekend with him isn’t relevant to the investigation into his alleged sexual assaults and rapes, so wasn’t included in a story about that.

But you want abused women to trust the police and justice system? Do you want a list of the former police officers convicted of serious abuse, rape and murder of women?

No organisation or institution can claim to be pure, but it's grotesque to cite journalistic failings without acknowledging the utter failings of law enforcement bodies.

I find it hard to believe that someone would wait 20 years to out a rapist - and do it via mainstream media.

I mean, why not go to the police, there and then?

This is what creates a level of doubt in my mind. I am not saying that he is innocent, but it all makes it seem less credible to some degree, to me.

I won't throw someone to the wolves just because of hear-say.

And come on, - lets be real - RB in his heyday, had no shortage of willing participants