holiday with dad

[KD1995]

Hi, am I being unreasonable?
so basically my youngests Nan booked a trip to Disney for them to take my youngest on their own (dad going too). This has really rubbed me up the wrong way. 1. It was booked with out any sort of conversation with me, to ask if it was ok it was done behind my back 2. He’s only 4 I have huge anxiety after loosing my mum so I wouldn’t feel comfortable with him being out of the country and I can’t get there if something happens 3. I’ve always wanted to go and take my boys and I think it’s not really fair on my oldest that he wouldn’t be able to have the same opportunity. So I orginally said no and it caused a massive argument I was made out to feel like a shit mum that I would let my child miss out. So In the end I tried to compromise And said what if I book the same trip but stay in a different hotel with my oldest so he gets to go and then just see if I could have my youngest for 2 days out of the trip and they have him the rest of the days but it wasn’t good enough. Dad is telling me that he’s going to take him regardless that I said no and that he has every right too. It’s getting really sour and I’m panicking. I thought you had to have permission from the other parent that the child can go out of the country with the other parent. I don’t know where I stand with it? Am I wrong here? (Sorry long post to read 😣) just need some advice/opinions- thanks

He can't take your dc out of the country without your permission.. Who has the passports?

If he has PR then yes he can take them out and realistically why would you stop him? Would it be fair if he stopped you taking your child? I understand about the older child but it’s not the youngest fathers issue.

That's not true. Both parents have to consent.

Where is his passport?

How long is the holiday and Paris or USA? I do think both parents have a right to take their kids on holiday.

No, he cannot take DS out of the country without your permission.

Does he already hold a PP? If not, you need to apply for one immediately in order to prevent his dad from getting one.

If you hold his PP then make sure it's somewhere really safe, and just stick to your guns. A colleague of mine keeps her DCs passports locked in her desk drawer as she knows there is no way her ex could ever get them or persuade the DC to get them from there.

I don’t think your reasons for not wanting them to go are very good. Presuming their dad is a decent parent (or you would have said otherwise), they’ll have a ball. Don’t let your anxiety or jealousy make them miss out.

i did ask for opinions so I could look at it from both sides so I totally understand those that are saying “why wouldn’t you let him go “. I just don’t like the way they had gone about it. If I had wanted to go book a holiday I be sure to ask their dads first, and if they said no then I would respect their decision. Or would happily make a compromise for everyone to be happy. I’m always saying yes to their ways because I end up feeling bullied into agreeing to them all the time. I didn’t think my compromise was that unreasonable. They would get time with him, I would have a little time too and my oldest would get to go. my youngest has never owned a passport so it would need doing. yes both parents should be able to take their kids away I’m not disputing that, I just think he’s still a little young. And threatening to take him when it’s not properly been agreed I think is not a nice way to go about it. maybe im over reacting 🙈 but surely if there was a way that it would work for both of us wouldn’t that be a better option! I just think there should be some balance. But thankyou all for your input :)

You can't just gatecrash their holiday. He can take your son abroad and if you tried to stop it a judge would probably allow it anyway if there's no safeguarding concerns. Your own anxiety and jealousy aren't reason enough to stop him. It's quite selfish that you'd rather your son doesn't get to go at all if you and other sibling can't go.

i don’t know where you would of got the idea that I’m jealous from? I’m open to opinions but that’s a little harsh. My points of why he shouldn’t go may not be agreed by other people that’s fine. I was open to the controversy, I wouldn’t have posted if I wasn’t going to except it. But I was also seeing if other people would feel the same or if I was just overreacting, and more so what happens if he did try and take him without my consent. what is there to be jealous of? I let him take him loads of places. What he does with our son in his own time is down to him. But to book a trip behind my back without me having any input, and be made to feel horrible because I had my doubts about it! I don’t think is fair.

You can only take a child out of the country if you have a child arrangement order and its lives with with you. If you don't, you need his consent in written form.

They should have asked you, not just booked it and announced they're taking him.

Is it Paris for a weekend or US for a longer holiday? Massive difference for me.

Assuming it’s Paris I think you need to be more flexible. Yes, ideally they should have talked to you first and that’s something to request for the future. However your anxiety isn’t a reasonable excuse for him to miss a holiday with his own Dad and unfortunately you do have to accept that both children have separate Dads and families and no, it won’t always be equal or ‘fair’.

Id plan something similar but not the same to do with your other ds and do all you can to maintain a civil relationship with everyone concerned if they are loving to your son.

Unless there’s any other issue if he took this to court the court would allow him to go

so unless you want to create a lot of hassle and unnecessary animosity for nothing let him go

inviting yourself along isn’t really a good option

If this has been planned for a while then he may already have ordered your son’s passport.

Is it Paris/USA/other?

But how is this permission granted or checked?

My husband has been out the country about 10-15 times with our younger children and not me and nobody has ever phoned me to ask my permission….. Is dual parent permission automatically assumed to be in place?

Or does OP have to go to Court to stop him?

I’m genuinely intrigued as to how it works.

As an aside I am with you 100% OP.

@KD1995 I’ve always wanted to go and take my boys and I think it’s not really fair on my oldest that he wouldn’t be able to have the same opportunity

This is the bit that makes you sound jealous. Assuming you wouldn’t invite your ex along on a trip you planned, he’s just doing what you wanted, but first.

wow, I didn’t except everyone to agree with me but do I feel hounded on. I’m being made out to be such a dreadful being. I don’t know why as a mum I wouldn’t be allowed a say just because it’s his dad. I would happily respect his decision and I would listen to his say if it was the other way round? So why couldn’t it work both ways. forget my points, I’m also talking about the principle of it all being done behind my back and then threatening to take him anyways if I don’t abide? I’m being made out to be the problem. am I’m just meant to take the abuse then? I don’t think it would be a very good co-parenting relationship if it was just very one sided. I’m not excepting it to just be my way or nothing. But if I’m getting threatened about taking him and hes going to do it anyways, what trust would there be? it’s a holiday, just simply a holiday and I’m getting all the agg? I think all of you hounding me would be valid if I totally stopped him from doing anything with him. But I give into a lot of things when I don’t feel comfortable so im far from selfish! I just think being out of the country was a little bit too much out of comfort zone. im allowed to have that feeling.

Actually I just invited my youngest dad to a trip in July to a caravan that we all went on together bearing in mind we ain’t together. so I very much involve him in my trips with the boys. I thought it was a nice touch for him to spend time with his son but also my oldest likes him being around. And I say it wasn’t fair on my oldest also because after my mum passed away my youngests Nan said to my oldest you can call me Nan. She took him on a little but it only suits them when it suits them as it’s all died down now. yes my oldest needs to understand he has a different family and I totally understand that too. But I was trying to kill two birds with one stone. As I won’t have any other time to take them both myself. I wasn’t trying to make it just to suit me. I was trying to make it fair.

When I was growing up my parents were divorced and my dad used to take me and my sister abroad all the time, a whole range of European countries as well as numerous trips to Disney Land Florida and I know it used to upset my mum. She never stopped us going but I think she probably hated it.

When I had my second baby he was born via c/s and when he was 13 days old, despite having an horrendous night with him and still having a sore wound, I dragged myself out of bed in the morning because our 3 year old had tickets to go to Gruffalo Land and meet the Gruffalo. My son was so excited and my husband kept telling me to stay at home and recover, but I wanted to be part of it. I knew how much it meant to my 3 year old and I wanted to be part of it….it sounds petty but I would haven been so jealous if my husband got to go and I didn’t. I had the worst day, it was freezing, I was in agony with my section and had to walk around Gruffalo Land for 6 hours with a pushchair but I know I would have felt so sad if I’d stayed at home knowing that my 3 year old would have experienced something really wonderful (in his eyes) and that it was my husband who had been able to provide it.

It sounds ridiculous now….but at the time I felt so jealous at the thought of my son experiencing it with someone that wasn’t me.

My husband has been taking our children abroad without me for about 7 years now (long story) and although I’ve always felt slightly anxious it’s human nature to assume that everything will be fine and I’d always had that assumption to.

However, earlier this year they went to Egypt and after about 2 days my eldest son started getting unwell (9 years old). He started spiking fevers and a doctor was
called out to him and for three days he was having IV antibiotics in the hotel room, but then he deteriorated and had to be transferred to hospital. He had deep tissue cellulitis / sepsis and was on IV fluids, IV antibiotics and IV anti-virals four times a day and it nearly killed me that I wasn’t there. He was having CT scans and ultrasound scans in a hospital where people could barely speak English and it broke my heart, as a mother that he had to go through all of that without me. He was in hospital for 6 days in total and it was an awful, awful time for me. It was like torture. He used to ring me and he’d be crying and asking for me and I couldn’t do anything. I can’t even explain how distressing it was for both of us.

I couldn’t fly out to be with him as I had recently been in hospital myself and wasn’t fit to fly, and I cried day and night because I couldn’t be with him and I was absolutely terrified that he would get severely ill and I wouldn’t be there.

I have told my husband that even though I’ve been fine with him taking our children abroad without me for the last 7 years, I now couldn’t ever let him do it again after that experience.

YANBU at all 🌷

@HeadAgainstWall0923
this breaks my heart just reading it. I’m so sorry you had to go through that. I wish it was just so simple to just let them go. ive been branded selfish and all that. Making these posts you’re going to get divided opinions. after my mum I suffered really badly. It’s just me and my kiddos. I would hate anything happening to them. they are all I have left. Maybe my anxiety shouldn’t get in the way, but I would have like to of thought that my feelings were valid. maybe I shouldn’t of posted as I’m actually in tears reading some of these responses. I would love for my boy to have the best time in the world. It’s just so hard to make the best decision for everyone. The whole situation has been horrible. I feel like I’m having to defend myself now! making I’m looking too deep into it, I just never have never been in this situation so I don’t know how to handle it. But thankyou I appreciate your response as you have put it across both sides

I think you need to separate your feelings and your actions

Feeling pissed off that it was organised without discussion = reasonable.
stopping him going for that reason = unreasonable.

Feeling pissed off that your ex said he’d go anyway = reasonable.
stopping him going for that reason = unreasonable

Wishing you could do the same for your other child and worrying it’s unfair = reasonable
Using that as a reason to stop him going = unreasonable.

Your feelings of worry and anxiety are normal. It’s understandable that the first time he was far away from you you’d have those feelings. That doesn’t make it fair on him, or reasonable, to stop him going.

The first time my girls went away without me I was a nervous wreck. I absolutely hated it and vowed never again… But they didn’t hate it. They absolutely loved it. And when they got back hyper and excitedly telling me all about I realised that I had to let them go because it was best for them.

He should have discussed it with you absolutely, but you would be wrong to deprive your son of the opportunity for this holiday.

You don't need his permission to book a holiday for you and your eldest at the same time though. So just go at the same time as they are going.

Ask to join them for the first experience of walking into Magic Kingdom together and seeing the castle, tell him it's important because it's a defining moment of any trip. Ask him to imagine how he would feel being denied that opportunity.

Then let them go about their holiday while you and your eldest have a ball together.

Then if anything happens with your youngest you're in the country. Also it means both kids get an ace holiday with quality one on one time with a parent.

All of you saying one parent can't take a child out of the country without the others consent are wrong. We have taken my daughter with no input from ex, and my step daughter without any written consent from her mum, abroad every year for the last 13 years!
My ex has also taken my daughter abroad a couple of times and whilst I obviously agreed, nothing was ever in writing

@YetMoreNewBeginnings can I ask how them feelings that are reflecting my decision are considered unreasonable? I think threatening and giving me abuse because I had some doubts as his mother is a very valid reason to not say yes because that’s them thinking they can do that everytime they want something. Why should I feel hostile over the situation and then agree to everything they say just because it’s his family. if I have to co parent with his dad, there’s got to be some respect otherwise it won’t work. There’s been no respect here what so ever. His point of doing it behind my back was because he thinks my oldest dad gets away with things so why can’t he? I’m not about to bash him on here. But how can I let these situations happen when it’s hostile. I’m not even been told how long for or what dates they are going. It’s not nice for my son to be in the middle of. of course I want my son to have fun but it’s not that clear cut.