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20mph in Wales - why???

243 replies

Flpwer · 16/09/2023 15:28

I don't understand why Mark Drakeford has done this - surely this will just cause more road rage??? Is this a money-making ploy because they know a lot of people will probably drive over it as 20mph feels so unnatural.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
IrresponsiblyCertainAboutSexualDimorphism · 16/09/2023 17:25

Further slowing the 30 to a 20 on these roads brings added risk imo, namely of somebody coming round a bend or over the brow of a hill at a possibly unwise but not illegal 60mph, and smashing into the law-abiding car in front that has obediently slowed to 18-19 for the 20mph zone stretch.

Anyone coming around a bend or over the brow of a hill should be going slowly enough to be able to stop if there’s a hazard beyond where they can see. A car going at the reduced speed limit is much less of a hazard than a pedestrian.

tinytemper66 · 16/09/2023 17:26

tanyaturneristhegoat · 16/09/2023 16:06

It is up to the individual local authority to change the signage. Mine hasn’t as of yet. SatNavs will also not be updated or the Highway Code for that matter.

My local road is already showing 20 in my car. Was 30 yesterday.

fairyfluf · 16/09/2023 17:29

WelshNerd · 16/09/2023 15:46

I think it's important to note that it doesn't apply to all roads and if there is a road which the local council believes should have a higher limit they can keep it higher.

On the example you raised of an isolated busy road, there should have been an engagement exercise by local authorities about their specific plans. Did you engage with this?

There we go then

FormerlyPathologicallyHappy · 16/09/2023 17:32

I think Drakefords a sleeper agent taking wales apart from the inside.

Luckily I never have to go there.

BestIsWest · 16/09/2023 17:36

I live in Wales , I’m in favour of the speed limit going to 20 in built up areas (and I really like Mark Drakeford).

We live in a village that went to 20 mph a few years ago. We have two primary schools and a sixth form college on our road. It is immeasurably safer and better. We still get idiots doing 30 but when the limit was 30 mph those idiots were doing 40mph.

20 is plenty.

WhiteFire · 16/09/2023 17:37

Gwendimarco · 16/09/2023 16:17

There are many A roads that are national speed limit 60 for many miles, but switch to 30 as you pass through a small hamlet (by which I mean a terraced row on either side of the road, couple of street lights and possibly a petrol station.

Slowing to 30 for a short stretch can feel a bit unnatural as nothing about the road conditions or visibility has changed, and the zone only lasts a few hundred metres until you have passed the garage and are on your way. It does make sense to look out for pedestrians of course, and these are the rules of the road - fine.

Further slowing the 30 to a 20 on these roads brings added risk imo, namely of somebody coming round a bend or over the brow of a hill at a possibly unwise but not illegal 60mph, and smashing into the law-abiding car in front that has obediently slowed to 18-19 for the 20mph zone stretch.

I drive to work on a road like that, though the 20 is only in school times. More often than not someone will be up my backside, despite it being a tiny stretch.

It does feel that you are going slower than you are.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 16/09/2023 17:39

I live out in the sticks of North Wales and I think this is a good idea, the only people I've found who don't tend to support this are either non residents, Tory supporters or the hard of thinking, which of those 3 do you fall into OP?

Freysimo · 16/09/2023 17:41

takemeouttown · 16/09/2023 15:58

If a child is knocked over at 20 they are far more likely to survive than at 30mph. The fools that drive at 40 on 30 roads will hopefully now just do 30 on the 20 roads. Win win.

Is there any evidence of carnage on Welsh Roads? Drakeford should have sorted out the appalling public transport before going with this policy. I'd love not to have to drive but I live rurally and there's no choice. Trains in Wales are unreliable as well.

BelindaBears · 16/09/2023 17:43

I live in a built up residential area with a 20mph limit and plenty of selfish cunts who “find it unnatural” to drive at a speed less likely to kill my child still bomb down the road so I’m not optimistic about the chances of the Welsh to be able to enforce this.

manontroppo · 16/09/2023 17:44

There was a recent thread where loads of people were saying they won’t cycle because it feels too dangerous. A blanket 20mph limit will help this, I think it’s a fab idea.

And if they manage to catch loads of idiots going over 20mph? What’s not to like - safer roads and an income stream!

GPTec1 · 16/09/2023 17:46

Flpwer · 16/09/2023 15:56

@Teddleshon thank you! I don't understand why people are comparing it to Chester, London etc. when a lot of North Wales is not like driving in a city.

I looked at the map of roads affected and its hardly onerous! very very few in North Wales.

https://datamap.gov.wales/maps/roads-affected-by-changes-to-the-speed-limit-on-re/view#/

I spend a lot of time in France and a 30kph limit in and around villages and towns is the norm, that is 18.6mph!!!

View map | DataMapWales

https://datamap.gov.wales/maps/roads-affected-by-changes-to-the-speed-limit-on-re/view#/

kitsuneghost · 16/09/2023 17:51

It really isn't a big deal

If you struggle to drive at 20mph - hand in your license
If someone driving 20mph in front of you gives you road rage - hand in your license
If you struggle to concentrate on the road whilst not going over 20mph - hand in your license

It is only bad drivers that are upset and arebmore vocal
Good drivers know they are capable of retaining composure and attention and it will not make a difference to them.

PinkRoses1245 · 16/09/2023 17:54

So you are fine with the fact that 5 people die a day on the road?! It’s shameful. We should be going much further than this. Cars are used as weapons every day

Missedmytoe · 16/09/2023 17:58

Flpwer · 16/09/2023 15:32

@Hufflepods This is nothing to do with road safety. There are roads turning to 20mph in my area that are basically a long stretch with about 2 houses in a field-like area nearby.
Absolutely ridiculous.

Where my relatives live in Wales is very much to do with safety. Narrow roads, sharp bends and steep gradients. Apparently yesterday someone rolled their car, doing 30, as they clipped the kerb on a sharp bend almost outside relatives house.

cheerypip · 16/09/2023 18:29

GPTec1 · 16/09/2023 17:46

I looked at the map of roads affected and its hardly onerous! very very few in North Wales.

https://datamap.gov.wales/maps/roads-affected-by-changes-to-the-speed-limit-on-re/view#/

I spend a lot of time in France and a 30kph limit in and around villages and towns is the norm, that is 18.6mph!!!

That map is not right. I have looked in my area and the roads I have driven on this morning, with 20mph signs freshly installed are not marked!

StripyHorse · 16/09/2023 18:34

MOST 30 are changing.

Roads without houses / shops etc tend to be higher limits anyway and won't be changing.

Councils have been able to apply for exemptions. One road I regularly use has been 20 for ages and is moving back up.

It is safer, and reduces particle pollution from tyres and brakes.

I really don't think it will be as bad as people are making out. I also have a quiet hope that people travelling into Wales will keep to the A roads now and stop clogging up local routes when trying to dodge the traffic.

Wsmi · 16/09/2023 18:49

Enjoy the £6.5b hit to your economy, Wales. You deserve it. If you support this nonsense.

MariePaperRoses · 16/09/2023 18:51

Hope this helps anyone in South wales -

Full list of 20mph mobile speed camera locations in South Wales for the next month
Newport

  • A48/Castleton/Near Motel
  • A48/Berryhill/Newport
  • A468/Caerphilly Rd/Rhiwderin
  • A467/Southbound/50 mph section
  • Bassaleg Road/Newport
  • B4591/Risca Road/Glasllwch Crescent
  • Allt-yr-yn Avenue, Newport
  • Allt-yr-yn Ave/Newport
  • B4237/Cardiff Rd/Waterloo Rd to Clytha Square
  • Corporation Road/Lysaght Village
  • Corporation Road/Newport
  • Cromwell Road, Newport
  • B4237/Chepstow Road/near One Stop
  • Pillmawr Road, Newport
  • B4596/Caerleon Rd/East of Beaufort Rd
  • B4237/Chepstow Rd/The Coldra
  • High Street, Caerleon
  • Ponthir Road/Caerleon
  • B4245/Magor Rd/Langstone Blaenau
  • A467/Aberbeeg Road/Near Warm Turn Aberbeeg
  • A4046/Station Road/Waunllwyd
  • Bournville Road/Blaina
  • A467/Abertillery Road/Blaina
  • New Road/Nantyglo
  • Chapel Road/Nantyglo
  • A4047/Beaufort Hill and King Street/Brynmawr
  • A4046/College Road/Ebbw Vale
  • Queens Villas/Beaufort Road/Ebbw Vale
  • B4478/Letchworth Road to Eureka Place
  • A4046/Ebbw Vale (nr Tesco's) Caerphilly
  • B4591/Risca Road/Rogerstone
  • B4591/Risca Road/Near Welsh Oak PH/Pontymister
  • A468/Machen Village
  • B4623/Mountain Road/Caerphilly
  • B4263/Bowls Terrace/Mill Road
  • Greenway/Bedwas House Industrial Estate/Bedwas
  • Wingfield Crescent/Llanbradach
  • A472/Ystrad Mynach to Nelson
  • Main Road/Maesycymmer
  • Victoria Road/Fleur-de-Lis/Blackwood
  • A469/New Rd/Tir Y Berth
  • B4254/Church Road/Gelligaer to Penpedairheol Lights
  • B4251/Newbridge Road/Pontllanfraith
  • Pant Road Newbridge
  • Oakdale Terrace/Penmaen
  • North Road/Newbridge
  • Bryn Howard Terrace and Syr Daffyd Ave/Oakdale
  • B4251/Kendon Hill
  • A472/Hafod yr ynys Road/Hafodyrynys
  • Pengam Road
  • B4511/Bedwellty Road/Aberbargoed
  • A4048/Argoed
  • Bailey Street/Deri
  • A469 Pleasant View, Tirphil
  • White Rose Way/New Tredegar
  • A4048/Newport Road/Hollybush Monmouthshire
  • B4245 Magor
  • M4/Toll Plaza/Westbound to Toll Plaza
  • C136/Chepstow Rd and Sandy Lane/Caldicot
  • A48/Caerwent/within 30mph gated section
  • A466/St Lawrence Road/Chepstow
  • Llangybi
  • Devauden Road/St. Arvans
  • A466/St Arvans to Livox Bends
  • B4293 Devauden
  • A472/Little Mill (30s)
  • B4598/Porthycarne Street / Abergavenny Road
  • Monmouth Road/Usk
  • Chepstow Road/Llansoy
  • B4293/Llanishen
  • A466/Llandogo
  • A466/Redbrook Road/Monmouth
  • Dixton Road, Monmouth
  • A466/Hereford Road/Monmouth
  • A465/Pandy Village/Offa's Tavern to Rhos Gwyn
  • A4077/Crickhowell Road/Gilwern/Abergavenny
  • A40/Brecon Road/Neville Hall/Abergavenny
  • A40/Monmouth Road/Abergavenny
  • Merthyr Road, Llanfoist
  • B4269/Llanellen Torfaen
  • Newport Road/Llanturnham/Cwmbran
  • Holybush Way/Cwmbran
  • Henllys Way/nr Pentre Close/Cwmbran
  • Henllys Way/Nr Tolpath
  • Llanfrechfa Way/Cwmbran
  • Greenmeadow Way/Cwmbran
  • C276/Ty Gwyn Way/Near Marlborough Rd
  • Greenforge Way/Cwmbran
  • Station Road/Sebastopol/Pontypool
  • Usk Road/New Inn/Pontypool
  • The Highway/New Inn
  • A472/Pontymoile Gyratory/Skew Fields to Pontypool
  • Crumlin Road/Pontypool
  • A4043/Snatchwood Road/St Lukes Road
  • B4246/Freeholdland Rd and Limekiln Rd/Abersychan
  • B4246/New Rd/Garndiffaith
  • B4246/Varteg/Abersychan
  • B4248/Garn Rd/Blaenavon Cardiff
  • M4/Junctions 33 to 34/Bridge Site
  • Heol Trelai/Ely/Cardiff
  • A48/Cowbridge Rd West/opp.The Culverhouse PH
  • St Fagan's Road/Fairwater (1)
  • B4262 Heol Isaf, Radyr (Scout Hall)
  • Lansdowne Road, Cardiff
  • Romilly Road, Canton
  • Llandaf Road, Cardiff
  • Pencisely Road, Cardiff
  • Merthyr Road/The Philog, Cardiff
  • Merthyr Road/Cardiff
  • A470/Manor Way/Whitchurch High School
  • Pantbach Road, Cardiff
  • Thornhill Road, Cardiff
  • Ty Draw Road, Roath
  • Lake Road West, Roath
  • Lake Road East, Roath
  • Heath Park Avenue, Cardiff
  • Heathwood Road, Cardiff
  • A48/Llanedeyrn/Cardiff
  • Ball Road/Llanrumney/Cardiff
  • Ty Winch Road/Old St Mellons
  • Willowbrook Drive/nr Heritage Park/Cardiff
  • Cypress Drive/St Mellons Merthyr
  • Forest Road/Treharris
  • A4054/Cardiff Road/Merthyr Vale
  • A470/Aberfan
  • Plymouth Street/Merthyr Tydfil
  • A4102/Swansea Road/Gellideg/Merthyr Tydfil
  • High Steet/Penydarren
  • Gurnos Road/Merthyr Tydfil Bridgend
  • A4061/Aber Road/Nant-Y-Moel
  • Cymmer Road/Bryn Terrace/Caerau
  • Heol Tywith/Nantyffyllon
  • Heol Ty Gwyn/Maesteg
  • A4061/Ogmore Vale
  • A4061/Lewistown/Ogmore Vale
  • A4061/Ogmore Vale
  • A4093/Blackmill
  • A4063/Bridgend Road/Llangynwyd
  • A4063/Coytrahen Village
  • Maesteg Road/Tondu
  • A4061/Bryncethin/Nr Heol Canola
  • M4/East of Junction 36/Nr. Sarn
  • Litchard Hill/Litchard Cross (Coity Rd) Bridgend
  • B4281/Farm Road/Cefn Cribwr
  • B4281/Cefn Road/Cefn Cribwr
  • High Street/Kenfig Hill
  • Kingsway/Bridgend Industrial Estate/Bridgend
  • B4622/Broadlands Link Road/Bridgend
  • A473/Bryntirion Hill/Bridgend
  • West Road/Nottage
  • Fulmer Road/Porthcawl Rhondda Cynon Taff
  • M4/Overbridge 2 km E of J35
  • A4222/Cowbridge Road/Brynsadler
  • A4119/Mwyndy Cross/Pontyclun
  • B4595/Brynteg/Llantrisant to Beddau
  • C104/Station Road/Church Village outside No. 16
  • Church Road/Tonteg
  • Gwalia Grove/Rhydfelin
  • B4278/Penrhiwfer Road/Tonyrefail/nr Kwik Save store
  • A4054/Pentrebach Road/nr. No. 31, Pontypridd
  • Cilfynydd Road, Cilfynydd
  • A4233/Ynyshir/Porth/Rhondda Cynon Taff
  • Penrhys Road/Tylorstown
  • Tyntyla Road/Llwynapia
  • Pentwyn Road/Ton Pentre
  • A4059/New Road/Mountain Ash nr Petrol Station
  • A470/Abercynon-Pentrebach
  • Cwmbach Road/Aberdare
  • Cwmdare Road/Cwmdare/Aberdare
  • B4276/Llwydcoed Road/Merthyr Road/Lwydcoed
  • A4059/Chapel Road/Penderyn Vale of Glamorgan
  • B4267/South Road/Sully
  • A4055/Cardiff Rd/Dinas Powys/VOG
  • Plymouth Road/Barry Island
  • A4050/Jenner Road/Barry
  • Romilly Park Road/Barry
  • A4226/Waycock Road/Rhoose
  • A48/Bonvilston/Wenvoe/Outside Police Station
  • A48/St Nicholas
  • Unnamed Rd/Pendoylan/Vale of Glamorgan
  • A4222/Cowbridge Road/Ystradowen
  • Cowbridge Road/St Athan/nr Bingle Lane
  • Boverton Road/Boverton/Llantwit Major
  • Llangan Primary School/Cowbridge
  • B4265/St Brides Road/St Brides Major
  • Llantwit Road/Wick
  • A48/Crack Hill/Brocastle
  • A48/Brocastle/Vale of Glamorgan
  • B4524/Corntown Road/Corntown (1)
  • B4265 St Brides Major Neath Port Talbot
  • B4069/Brynamman Rd/Brynamman
  • A4109/Pantyffordd/Golwg y Bryn
  • A474/Commercial Road/Rhyd y Fro
  • A474/Graig Road/Alltwen
  • A474/Neath Road/Rhos
  • Swansea Road/Trebanos
  • Penscynnor - Pleasant Hill, Cilfrew
  • A4109/Main Road/Aberdulais
  • B4424/Neath Road/Tonna
  • B4290/New Road/Jersey Marine
  • Shelone Road, Briton Ferry
  • Baglan Way/Port Talbot
  • Willow Way/Old Road/Baglan Swansea
  • A4118 Nr Knelston Primary School, Knelston
  • Pennard Road/Kittle
  • B4295/New Rd/Crofty
  • Mayals Road/Swansea
  • A4216/Cockett Rd/Cwmbach Rd to Broadway
  • A483/Fabian Way/Nr Port Tennant Rd
  • B4295/Cwmbach Rd/Cockett
  • B5444 Bonymaen Road, Pentrechwyth
  • Pentregethin Road/Gendros
  • Swansea Road/Llewitha
  • Belgrave Road, Gorseinon
  • B4296 Grovesend, Swansea
  • Bolgoed Road, Pontarddulais
  • Heol Ddu/Swansea
  • Swansea Road/Llangyfelach Road/Llangyfelach
  • A48/Clasemont Road/Morriston
  • Heol Y Mynydd/Gorseinon
  • Birchgrove Road/Birchgrove
  • Clydach Road/Ynystawe
  • St Joseph's Catholic Primary School, Pontardawe Road, Clydach
  • Birchgrove Road, Glais
  • Bolgoed Road, Pontarddulais
  • Clydach Road/Ynystawe
Redwinestillfine · 16/09/2023 19:41

I wish they did it here ( England) I would fully support it.

CasperGutman · 16/09/2023 20:01

I think the Welsh Conservatives' recent public opposition to making 20mph the default speed limit must be relying on most people not following proceedings in the Senedd particularly closely.

The reality is that the measures have had broad cross-party support since they were first proposed, by a Conservative, five years ago.

20mph in Wales - why???
brightdayloomingdark · 16/09/2023 20:08

Flpwer · 16/09/2023 15:42

@LunchBoxPolice I live in rural Wales and it seems this will work in the Urban side of Wales but the roads near me are not worth a 20mph speed limit

I think this. Since moving to Wales it is noticeable just how few people there are! Unless I am right in the city Centre in many residential areas there are just no/ very few people walking about. Where I live you would have to try pretty hard to find a pedestrian, let alone then hit them with your car. I support 20mph in built up areas where people do actually walk around a lot, but think a blanket default to 20mph is overkill in a country like Wales.

Jellykat · 16/09/2023 20:13

Flpwer · 16/09/2023 15:55

@BarbaraofSeville I live in rural Wales and the roads are changing to 20mph so yes, people aren't suggesting it because they're actually doing it

You cant be that rural, the 20mph limits are only where there are existing street lights.

Shade17 · 16/09/2023 20:40

Enjoy the £6.5b hit to your economy, Wales. You deserve it. If you support this nonsense.

+1

I won’t be visiting any longer. Fuck ‘em.!

JustAnotherPoster00 · 16/09/2023 20:59

Shade17 · 16/09/2023 20:40

Enjoy the £6.5b hit to your economy, Wales. You deserve it. If you support this nonsense.

+1

I won’t be visiting any longer. Fuck ‘em.!

Edited

You won't be missed

DrMadelineMaxwell · 16/09/2023 21:12

I live in one of the pilot areas so we've had this for a year now. It has been far from popular and remains so. For many reasons. Mostly because, no, they haven't limited it to only roads in residential areas. They kept one road only through our town at 30mph. The other main roads in and out were taken down to 20mph regardless of how built up they were.

And come tomorrow, they are even taking that one remaining 30mph road down to 20 until they then jump through the hoops of applying exceptions to this to revert it to 30mph.

It is costing a hideous amount of millions of £ in a time when cost of living is not good and the Welsh NHS struggles even more than England to keep to targets.

You can't overtake cyclists without speeding over the limit. It only adds one minute to your journey if your journey is one mile long. If you were driving for 60 miles on those roads, then you'd now be driving for 3 hours, not 2. They say that it lowers emmisions, but how can running your car for a 1/3 longer for every journey do that?

The first few months had many road rage incidents.

And, most worryingly, you have far more pedestrians stepping out into the road assuming that they have so much more time to cross safely, and often basically assuming you'll stop for them.

In a year the average speed on the roads here has dropped from 33mph when we had a 30 limit to 27mph in a 20.

Waste of time, resources and money.

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