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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not know how to drag myself into this century?

83 replies

duringthewarrodney · 15/09/2023 11:31

I’m a long-time poster on MN but have never posted in this category. I partake and post about my GC quite a lot (I care for them often), so I’ve NC’d for this post. And I’m sorry, now I’ve finished bashing the keyboard, I’m aware this is tediously long....

I’m in my early 60’s and recently, although physically I still feel much younger, mentally is a whole different matter. Reading a lot of posts in AIBU is making me realise that I’m turning into an old-fashioned, intolerant hag who is stuck a few decades behind.

I read posts where, to me, someone has been unreasonable and/or just a spoiled brat or downright rude. Yet (and here is my problem), so many responses are defending the ‘unreasonable’ behaviour, by pointing out that the offender may have a ND disorder, suffer from insecurity or may have had a difficult upbringing, other hidden issues etc. In some cases yes, but for the vast majority of content, I find myself reading it and thinking “FFS, accept you were just plain wrong and get on with it”.

And I’m having a battle with myself over my perspective of this. I’m ashamed that I’m turning into the type of person who I have always been so derisive of – and afraid that I’m becoming ‘that’ person who is stuck in a generation time warp of “It wasn’t like this in my day” and “It’s nothing that a bit of discipline won’t sort out”. My 6-year-old GS said to me the other day (after he refused to get out of the bath when I said it was time to get dry and into PJs for bed) “Nanny, you do know I have choices, don’t you?”. I swallowed a smile and agreed that yes he does have choices in many things, but explained that sometimes we all need help to make the correct choice. He said “Getting out of the bath is not the right choice for me right now, Miss XYZ at school said we must always remember that we can challenge a choice if it’s not right”. He’s 6 years old ffs! Worth mentioning that he’s usually a jolly, well-grounded little chap and doesn’t give anyone too much trouble and hearing him speak like this is so out of character. Of course now I think he’s going to end up on AIBU at some point for being “entitled” (which seems to be a contender for word of the year at the moment….see, dinosaur mode has kicked in again!)

I mentioned this to his Mum (my DD) and she rolled her eyes and said that I have to get with the times and things are very different for children than they were ‘back in my day’. She said that no child should ever be told what to do without a full explanation of why they are being asked to do it. I told her that I HAD explained to the GS why he needed to get out of the bath (that it’s bedtime, school the next day and how hard it is at school if you’re already tired when you get there etc.), but GS response to this was that I was not being kind, and it’s very important to be kind. I was very kind about it!

This morning I read a post about someone having problems with a new employee (young graduate) who had got something a little wrong at work. When picked up on it, the employee obviously felt she was being victimised and wanted an apology from the manager who had raised the issue. Whilst the majority of replies were along the lines of “she’s trouble/get rid”, many more answers suggested that fresh eyes in the workplace might not be a bad thing and that the new employee shouldn’t just accept the way things work there currently, just because it’s always been done a certain way. I genuinely felt a flash of anger at these responses. In this case, the OP said the workplace is a good place to be, the existing team is a happy one, there’s a good working vibe etc. and productivity is good. Why the heck would anyone believe that the work culture there needs changing just because someone didn’t like being told they had messed up?

There are many more examples I could list where I’ve found myself in the minority camp of ‘just suck it up’ and I’m starting to at best doubt myself and at worst, not liking the narrow-minded person that I’m worried I’m becoming. This is manifesting in RL too – struggling to think of an actual scenario now, but let’s use driving as one. I have driven almost daily for well over 40 years (and proud to say I’ve never had so much as a bump in all that time, likely an element of luck here, but still proud of it all the same). Lately, I’m finding the intolerance of other road users is at a whole new level. The slightest ‘wrong’ move (for eg. not driving fast enough for the driver of a car behind me, or auto headlights on occasion having not dipped soon enough for an oncoming vehicle at night), results in a barrage of horn-blowing, fist-waving and other gesticulations. I’m pretty sure that this aggression was much less prolific years ago, when an apologetic hand raised was acknowledged with a nod. So, is this another example of times changing and me not keeping up? It seems a constant struggle between ‘we must be kind’ and ‘we must also not be afraid to scream and shout if we feel we are being wronged’!

I am deeply ashamed that I am going to be ‘that’ 80-year-old who sits in a wing-backed chair bemoaning ‘the youth of today’ and ‘what has the world come to’. I don’t want to be, but equally, I honestly don’t know how to go about being more tolerant of changing times and accepting that things can’t stay the same. I know I need to understand that just because something was considered ‘right’ years ago, may not necessarily be appropriate or relevant now. I struggle with this more than I care to admit.

How do I drag myself into the 2000s and stop myself from ending up a miserable, wizened old bat? I should mention that when reading AIBU threads, I do sometimes realise I’ve read some opposing opinions to mine that I’d not thought of before, and when that happens I’m pleased that I’ve been able to recognise differing viewpoints, but it doesn’t happen as often as I’d like.

Please be kind – I don’t want to get bashed for being like this (I can do that just fine on my own!), but I'd really welcome any advice on how to be a bit more open-minded, and yes, tolerant of other peoples’ opinions. It’s likely irrelevant, but I’d also like to mention that this became more noticeable during/after a very late menopause. I’ve also struggled with ongoing anxiousness, memory problems and horrible brain fog since this time, which HRT hasn’t really improved (that said, I’m more convinced these problems are more attributable to having had a difficult few years with the loss of loved ones from Covid at the beginning, business struggles at the same time and having sole care of elderly and ailing parents), so I’m still hoping these issues are transient and will resolve when my situation changes). But can the menopause change your personality or am I just looking for excuses?

Thank you if you made it to the end and haven't nodded off by now!

OP posts:
TheEyesOfLucyJordon · 15/09/2023 12:41

Put simply, I wouldn't drag yourself anywhere. You're just fine where you are. It's the rest of 'em that are lost.

I can't wait until I'm 80 and can fully morph into "Mrs Brady: old lady". The training's going well 🙂

LuciaPillson · 15/09/2023 12:44

Oh, you should absolutely embrace the 21st century. People DO have choices! Next time it happens, explain to your daughter that taking care of your grandson is not the right choice for you right now, or until such time as you aren't going to be accused of being unkind for pointing out that bathtime is an entity with finite limits. Use your free time to take up a delightful hobby and celebrate your choices. 😁

As for Miss XYZ at school I wonder whether she has children? If not she's certainly worked out how to wreak a cunning revenge on parents, more power to her. If she does she's likely either to be found with haggard eyes and snarly hair screeching at her offspring to stop crossing the road without looking and no you can't have another ice lolly, in contravention of what she teaches at school, or she's one of those parents explaining with a condescending smile that of course she cannot tell little Diogenes-Alphonse to stop kicking you in the shins as that would interfere with his own innate development of harmonious self-regulation.

DappledThings · 15/09/2023 12:44

I've voted YABU just because very little of what you've described sounds to me like anything you need to change.

I'm 44. DS is 7. If he tried that line about choices about the bath I'd have laughed and agreed yes in some things he does but this isn't one of them and he needs to crack on with bedtime right now.

Typos edited

Goldmember · 15/09/2023 12:45

Sorry OP, I'm completely with you and I'm early 40s. Kids need discipline and boundaries and should listen to their elders. I do try to provide back up info when I give instructions or 5 minute warnings before we go somewhere. This is courtesy for the DC to let them understand why I asked them to do it. It isn't a choice.

HeffyAgain · 15/09/2023 12:58

Not quite 40 yet and I'm exactly like you!
My children always have a choice - do as they have been told or get into trouble 🤷‍♀️😂
The world seems to have gone a bit nuts at the moment but I think there are still plenty of people like us with the 'suck it up and get on with it' mantra for life, you just have to find your crowd (ie usually not mn!)
I would also explain to your daughter that you are exercising your choice not to have your DGS until he is capable of getting out of the bath when asked nicely.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 15/09/2023 12:59

Also standing in solidarity with you OP. 54 and have felt like a grumpy old woman since my mid 30s. I sometimes think it’s to do with the fact that our generation was the last, broadly speaking, to be mostly parented in a “pull yourself together, the world doesn’t revolve around you” style…. Obviously I’m glad that children and young adults are encouraged to tend to their mental health, and their parents to be more aware also. Sometimes though I wonder what would happen if I, a middle aged woman, challenged perceived slights in any area forcefully….. I suspect I’d get short shrift because allegedly I’m a grown up. I wish younger generations could understand a lot of us are just winging it and sometimes progress happens so fast we can’t keep up….

Sorry, in one of those “I don’t understand the world any more moods 😹”. I shall just keep smiling and nodding and thank fuck Minority Report is fiction…. So far …. 😹

Wingedharpy · 15/09/2023 13:03

I find chatting with a kindred spirit while having a stiff gin, helps.

Bearbookagainandagain · 15/09/2023 13:07

I agree with a lot of your view in the examples you gave, and I'm mid-30s so hey! Your not that behind!
Maybe what HAS changed is that you are entitled to your opinion! And so are your grandson and your daughter :) As long as you are open-minded and accept that others might disagree, there is no need for you to conform to a specific norm (particularly on MN on workplace behaviours, it almost looks like a lot of people commenting aren't actually working...)

Btw, for your grandson example in the bath, where these the real reasons? Because it seems unlikely that 15-20 min more in the bath (the water will get cold eventually) will have a dramatic impact on his school day. The main reason I want my kids to get out of the bath is because I want to move on to something else... maybe your grandson picked up on the fact that the reasons you gave weren't really valid.

araiwa · 15/09/2023 13:08

Your first mistake is the incorrect assumption that anything posted on Mumsnet is in any way real or representative of the real world.

It's not your age at all, it's the batshittery on here

ginandlemonade23 · 15/09/2023 13:09

Zanina · 15/09/2023 12:09

I'm in my 30s and I can't stand all this entitled behaviour. Anyone who pushes it too much with me gets a bollocking or I distance myself from them. I'm not taking shit from my kids or anyone who thinks their "choices" are allowed to impact me and allow them them to rule me as they wish. There's right and wrong, principles and morals for a reason. We are supposed to take lead from our elders, we can question and try to improve things of course, but that doesn't mean taking the piss. Society is breaking down rapidly imo and its showing up in these disrespectful ways. I am that grumpy old fashioned person, and I know that that in itself will be a deterrent to anyone who tries to push their luck with me. Stick to your guns op, you deserve respect from your offspring. I don't think it's right that your daughter responded to you like that, you're her mother not the other way round.

In my 30's too and completely agree!

lavendersbluedillydilly12 · 15/09/2023 13:09

I'm 37 and I think you're being very hard on yourself. There's quite a lot of research that the most important indicator of long term success is self control. See the marshmallow test! I always acknowledge my children's feelings about something, but I still hold the line when they have to do something. I don't think it's good for little ones to have too much control over their lives; they need to feel safe and secure within some boundaries.

Bearbookagainandagain · 15/09/2023 13:09

araiwa · 15/09/2023 13:08

Your first mistake is the incorrect assumption that anything posted on Mumsnet is in any way real or representative of the real world.

It's not your age at all, it's the batshittery on here

😂yes this as well...

ifIwerenotanandroid · 15/09/2023 13:12

TheEyesOfLucyJordon · 15/09/2023 12:41

Put simply, I wouldn't drag yourself anywhere. You're just fine where you are. It's the rest of 'em that are lost.

I can't wait until I'm 80 and can fully morph into "Mrs Brady: old lady". The training's going well 🙂

OMG yes. I've been doing the, "I want some of those stamps you don't sell any more," for years now.

aWorkOne · 15/09/2023 13:13

Don't generalise - all young people are X, people from my gen are Y.

That should do it, imo

MotherofGorgons · 15/09/2023 13:14

Only the most extreme cases are posted on MN, like the post today. IRL people of all generations get along just fine, for the most part.

mewkins · 15/09/2023 13:15

I wonder how quickly your grandson's teacher regretted telling her class they were all free to challenge her choices 😄.

ehb102 · 15/09/2023 13:16

The only thing you have to do in life is breathe. Everything else is a choice with consequences.

This was quoted back to me by my child when I said "You HAVE to get dressed NOW." My response was: "You are quite right. The consequences of you choosing not to get dressed now are that I will carry you down the stairs, strap you in the car seat naked and take you straight to childcare because I cannot afford to be late today. Also it will mean instead of having a nice start to the day with you I will be upset and cross and sad. I'd like you to chose to get dressed now." Child got dressed.

There is not enough talk about consequences. We want to give children the power of choice to save them from bad choices,. especially in the face of peer pressure or malevolent pressure. We are trying to teach action and consequence.and evaluation of alternatives instead of blind obedience. Not entitlement.

LlynTegid · 15/09/2023 13:18

I'd ask whether you should want to drag yourself into the 21st century, in the way you suggest.

I have no wish to go back to the last century, but there are aspects of life today I would cheerfully get rid of.

Stompythedinosaur · 15/09/2023 13:19

I think it helps to remember that the world and our society is constantly changing, and always has been.

I was a kid in the 80s, and I suspect there were middle aged people then who thought the same sorts of things about my behaviour then - I remember trying to get my grandma to understand why we should recycle, and it clearly seemed bizarre to her, though it's normal now.

There's something about just accepting standards change and we have no say over it. We can choose what values to try to instill in our dc, but they are part of the world they are part of, and it isn't the same world we grew up in.

Motomum23 · 15/09/2023 13:20

Well I'm in my 30s and if my child refused to get out of the bath I would pull the plug out and let them sit in cold draining water if I wasn't in the mood to lift them out kicking and screaming. I might also add some sarcasm about being an adult with choices and I choose not to read stories tonight if I was really fighting a battle. Kids do not need flexibility and choices they need stability and behavioural expectations.

Notsuredontknow · 15/09/2023 13:35

I’m another who’s in her thirties and agrees with your stance Op! Sometimes when I’m struggling to see a sympathetic perspective in a certain scenario I imagine it’s a loved one who’s in the wrong (as I perceive it) but even then my sense is often “well they’re being an idiot, as we all are sometimes, apologise and move on”

As for parenting, I do wonder if I’ve made an error in offering so many choices to my 4yo. I do it because the advice as I’ve read it is to offer them a sense of control (which cereal do you want, do you want to wear a dress or trousers, shall we go to the park or the shop etc) but I fear this has led her to think she gets an opinion on everything! Unlike your DD I have taken to responding to my DD’s “I don’t want to’s” with a blunt “well sometimes we have to do things we don’t want to do. Now!” I’m far from the perfect parent but I’m quite shocked at how many of my peers seem terrified to upset their kids and bow down to their every demand. The more I see it happen the more I’m motivated not to be like that!

duringthewarrodney · 15/09/2023 13:44

Oh my, I sincerely can't tell you what a difference these replies have made - I want to answer and thank you all individually, but in the next room, I've got an 86-year-old needing help doing her nails (I have a Mum who is crippled in pain with terminal cancer, but who still likes her nails to 'look pretty' - she's a legend!) and a 90-year-old who Dad is getting stroppy because he can't get used to the new tablet we bought him to read his daily paper on, so I need to go tend to my elderly children!

But seriously, thank you to each and every one of you for taking the time to reply, I feel ridiculously rejuvenated reading them, and not quite so much that I'm just going round the bend. I think part of the problem is that I sometimes don't recognise myself at the moment, but again, circumstances at home aren't pretty and becoming the 'parent' to my parents is bloody hard (plus, I'm so not ready to have them go and leave this world, they've been amazing throughout my whole life and still are - when they can remember 😂).

I do just want to say that the whole scenario around GS and my DD was conducted a little tongue in cheek, hence why I inwardly smiled when GS exercised his rights to 'choices' in a very deadpan manner (having done so, he got out of the bath without fuss, hopped into bed and said "Goodnight GanGan, don't let Ganj (that's DH) keep you awake snoring, you need your sleep too"). I honestly think at the age of 6, he pretty much repeated verbatim what he had been taught at school that day, but with no real comprehension of what it meant, he just happened to use it in the right context! It was he who matter-of-factly informed me I needed to be kind, not his Mum. My DD was a little rolly-eyed when she said that the expectation for parents now is to reason with and explain everything to young children - I'm not sure that deep down she is any more convinced by this than I am, but because that's what the 2023 edition of the Haynes Manual for Kids says, then it must be right, right?

DD is a lovely daughter and imo, a brilliant Mum. If anything she's on the stricter side of strict than DH and I were with them. She is a stickler for manners and respect and she has two kids who they can generally take anywhere without fear they are going to turn feral or start eating the furniture. She does do a lot of explaining to her DC, more so than 'in my day', but our two GC are kind, happy, thoughtful and popular within their group of friends and at school - who could ask for more than that? Gobby little shites sometimes, but I'd rather see evidence of spirit at their ages, than worry they are not robust enough to deal with everyday life.

A PP who said her response to her DC about life not being fair really struck a chord. It was my Mum's most used line to us kids, and I passed it on with mine. And yes, narration and explanations aside, I have definitely heard my daughter reference this to her DCs more than once 😄

Thanks again - you've made a miserable old bag bounce back today.

Right, off to put my manicurist hat on now!

OP posts:
AgnesX · 15/09/2023 13:50

With rights come responsibilities and I do think that people don't want to take responsibility for the choices that they make.

Generally a lack of action or the other way around has consequences. When people can't see that it annoys me no end. I have a low tolerance for this and the never ending whinging that invariably follows.

Is that age.... maybe. Mostly not.

BeautifulGnome · 15/09/2023 13:52

In my 30s

I think it was helpful to move away from the "suck it up/stiff upper lip/mental health doesn't exist/just get on with it/always respect your elders" attitudes that I see/saw in some of my older relatives.

But I think we've overcompensated and can see an increasing amount of people who are so emotionally fragile, lacking resilience, quick to take offence, becoming entitled, selfish.

As a society we're looking more towards the individual than the group.

The middle ground has been lost!

With regards to your GC, I would have congratulated him on expressing himself so well, and told him it was still time to get out of the bath!

I will always listen to a well reasoned argument (put across poliety without whining) from my DC. If they make a good case I'll change my mind, or find a compromise. But that's the middle ground isn't it... I'm not saying "do as you're told" or "of course you can choose to get out when you feel ready"

DD (young teen) recently wanted more freedom outside of the house which I was reluctant to give. She started the conversation "mum, I have a reasoned argument... "!!
She got almost all of what she wanted

morelippy · 15/09/2023 14:01

I agree. I'm getting on a bit and tbh quite like not having to toe the party line after a career that demanded so much tongue biting.

The world doesn't always change for the better.. life experience helps weed out the crap from the important imo

Plus as other have mentioned Mumsnet is simply bonkers most of the time.