Page 9 | How bothered are you about Small Boats?

Spinet · 2023-09-14T10:19:38+00:00

I think the idea that people think Small Boats with illegal immigrants on them is a really pressing issue is made up by politicians to have something to campaign on. Am I right? Is this a pressing issue as far as you're concerned? I'm not really talking about immigration/ asylum seekers in general, just the small boats everyone keeps mentioning. If you're worried about people dying in the channel I get that, but do you think people finding their way here illegally is a major issue for our country at the moment? I think it's clear I don't but I will accept I'm wrong about this being a made up issue if the majority disagree with me. If you want to vote YABU= this is one of my top ten concerns. YANBU = I don't think it's a top ten issue for the country.

Ginmonkeyagain · 14/09/2023 13:33

@Lorrymum because they may be the ones that will prefer to come to the UK for fhe reasons I stated.

Imagine if you had to flee for your life and stat again from scratch in another country. Where would you be aiming for?

I speak reasonable French (enough to get a semi skilled job at first) and know the country well. So I would be ok there. That may not apply to everyone.

Look at the Ukrainian refugees. People chose different countries depending on all sorts of factors - language spoken, family or cultural ties, perceptions of the country, some wanted to be as near to Ukraine as possible.

Lastchancechica · 14/09/2023 13:33

Iamnotastick · 14/09/2023 13:32

Its not desirable - its so arrogant to think the UK is some beaming golden destination above Europe. They take considerably more asylum seekers than we do.

They may have family or contacts here. They may speak some basic english already. They may know someone who has told them that would find it easier to find work here.

Show quote history

If it’s not desirable why bother risking your life and your children?

JoanOfAllTrades · 14/09/2023 13:33

Well, it wouldn’t be the first time the British government weaponise one issue in order to distract from another issue that they don’t want the public to know about/don’t want reported heavily.

I don’t think it’s a question of too many immigrants, small boats or anything else. It’s more what else is happening that the government is diverting attention away from?

Lastchancechica · 14/09/2023 13:34

No, this is a major issue

Sladurche · 14/09/2023 13:34

Bumpitybumper · 14/09/2023 13:25

@Sladurche
Can you explain, with valid sources, why the concerns are "legitimate" and showing clearly that "uncontrolled immigration is a real and growing problem". What are those problems?
There is literally an abundance of sources that will prove that uncontrolled migration is a real and growing problem for wealthy countries. The EU has seen a 30% increase in illegal immigrants this year alone and the USA is reporting record levels of illegal migration at the US-Mexico border.

Countless economists have proven that uncontrolled migration causes all kinds of problems and challenges for the host country. It can depress wages where the migrants have competing skills with the domestic workforce, puts a strain on housing and public services and can lead to an escalation of social and cultural tensions in communities.

I can tell you the biggest problem in this country (and in may others, such as Japan) is that we aren't having enough children to pay for the care, pension and health of an increasingly aged population. Read up on "dependency ratios" - ie taxpayer-to-dependent. It's currently 1:3. This is completely unsustainable in the long term. The average age in this country is now 45, our birth rate has dropped, but our population is living much longer after retirement than they used to, with increasingly complex needs. We already have a care crisis, 500,000 vacancies. This is only going to get worse
I am aware of this issue so don't need to read up on it thanks. The jury is out regarding the impact that falling birth rates will have on developed countries, especially with the dawn of the AI era on the horizon. Even if I fully accepted your argument (which I don't), uncontrolled migration would not automatically solve the problems that you identify. Migrants aren't all desperate to be care workers and don't necessarily have the skills to plug shortages that we have.

The other problem is cost of living- there is a wage stagnation while prices of everything rises phenomenally. The amount of "corporate welfare" - topping up wages with taxpayer money whilst corporations are literally raking it in getting record profits is also an issue
Again, see earlier in my post where I explain that uncontrolled migration can suppress wages and add further demand to markets thus driving up prices.

I've posted my sources. Please post yours, as I can't find them.

Immigrants don't cause the issues with access to services such as housing, benefits, education or healthcare. In fact, they contribute a net benefit in tax.
30% of NHS doctors were born abroad.

Immigrants don't push down wages. https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-labour-market-effects-of-immigration/

The Labour Market Effects of Immigration - Migration Observatory

This briefing discusses the effects of immigration on the labour market in the UK, focusing on wages and employment.

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-labour-market-effects-of-immigration

IClaudine · 14/09/2023 13:34

Lastchancechica · 14/09/2023 13:32

And now we are running the risk of a potential Labour government making this a million times worse. They have no interest in limiting or preventing migrants and smugglers rackets.

Where has Labour said that? Has it set out its immigration policies for the forthcoming GE or are you just making things up?

Lastchancechica · 14/09/2023 13:34

Unless you want to discuss chinas debt crisis

LemonTT · 14/09/2023 13:35

It bothers me because of criminal enterprises behind it. Which are also involved in human trafficking, drugs, and prostitution.

It bothers me that it is used as a wedge issue.

it bothers me that there are no safe routes and this route is mainly for the strong not the vulnerable.

WillowCraft · 14/09/2023 13:35

Motomum23 · 14/09/2023 11:32

I think it's the tip of a hike iceberg. At the end of the day we spend millions housing these people, they get access to a dentist which is impossible for millions of British people, they get free gym membership - a luxury most can't afford. I'm all for helping people live a better life but it should be on an equal basis to the lower quality of life here not better than.

That's rubbish. They are kept in some form of basic accommodation until their claims are processed and then either sent back or can stay, if they stay they are the same as anyone else and work or apply for benefits.
The issue is it takes too long to process the claims. That doesn't help anyone

EasternStandard · 14/09/2023 13:35

Clavinova · 14/09/2023 13:32

I think we should absolutely be engaging with the EU about how to handle the issue on a strategic joined-up level

The EU member states are too busy fighting amongst themselves:

BERLIN, Sept 13 (Reuters) - The German government has suspended an agreement with Italy to voluntarily take in refugees because Rome is not honouring its obligations under the European Union's Dublin rules...

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/germany-suspends-voluntary-deal-take-refugees-italy-2023-09-13/

True

https://www.euronews.com/2022/11/11/migrant-rescue-ship-arrives-in-france-after-italian-refusal

Meloni slams 'aggressive' France as migrant rescue ship row escalates

The war of words between Rome and Paris escalated on Friday as the Ocean Viking ship carrying over 200 migrants docked in Toulon, after Italy refused to take it.

https://www.euronews.com/2022/11/11/migrant-rescue-ship-arrives-in-france-after-italian-refusal

onanotherday · 14/09/2023 13:36

PuttingDownRoots · 14/09/2023 11:39

If they are willing to not only get on those boats, but put their children on those boats... they must be desperate.

I'm concerned about the traffickers making money from that desperation. But not about the vast majority of the people trying to get here.

This....and the assumption that they will not be useful citizens should they gain asylum....we are in desperate need of workforce...it seems we would cut our nose off ...

Original poster

Spinet · 14/09/2023 13:36

Lastchancechica · 14/09/2023 13:32

And now we are running the risk of a potential Labour government making this a million times worse. They have no interest in limiting or preventing migrants and smugglers rackets.

This isn't true. In fact comments about the 'Small Boat Crisis' in the paper referring to what Labour have announced about it this morning is what prompted me to start this thread. I don't have a fully formed opinion about whether or not illegal immigration is as big an issue as claimed but I do know that representing desperate human beings as a 'Small Boats Crisis' is nonsense.

OP posts:

anniegun · 14/09/2023 13:36

Basically Brenda from Bristol cannot get a council house , NHS dentist or a new hip. Rishi (from California) says it is all the fault of a poor family from Syria rather than because his wife does not want to pay more tax. Brenda believes this to be true because the Daily Mail, GB News and the Express tell he so. Rishi wants the current situation to continue because he can pretend he will fix the problem but Kier will not. Eventually people will figure out that its not true. But by that time The Mail will be telling Brenda that only Suella's brilliant new plan to machine gun the boats will get her a dentist.😪

Highandlows · 14/09/2023 13:37

How many should we let in until we need to be in a boat ourselves somewhere? I am scare about the impact of climate change making this much much worse.

Lastchancechica · 14/09/2023 13:38

IClaudine · 14/09/2023 13:34

Where has Labour said that? Has it set out its immigration policies for the forthcoming GE or are you just making things up?

Show quote history

Labour have historically always been very, very soft on immigration. Even now they are coming up with lame ideas about EU chats - even as Germany pulls out of the arrangement on the very same day!!! I don’t trust them to sort this out at all - it’s about to get even worse under Labour.

Just listen to the lovies on here. Borders what borders they say, send better boats. This is their position. It’s frightening.

ThereIbledit · 14/09/2023 13:38

I would like to address the claim made by @Motomum23 that migrants get better access to dentists than we do.

From the government's website:

"Healthcare professionals should provide new migrant patients with information about NHS dental care, entitlements to dental care, and how to find an NHS dentist."

Dental health: migrant health guide - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk )

It seems that those who have a successful Asylum claim, are offered free dental treatment on the NHS. Something which is also free to various benefits claimants in the UK.

As anybody who has looked in the last, oh, 15+ years will know, getting an NHS dentist is nigh on impossible. A theoretical possibility that in practice isn't available to the majority of people in England (I'm sorry I don't know the Scottish, NI or Welsh situations). Nowhere does anything I can find state that migrants - illegal or otherwise - get some magic access key to become a patient of an NHS dentist that we, the general population can't access.

They might in theory get free dental care, but I'd put good money (the amount I've just had to pay for my private dentistry appointment for two fillings, for example) on the fact that the reality is that they can't get access to the theoretical freebie any more than we can.

Are you angry that they get a magical theoretical unicorn that you can't, that they can't access in practice?

Dental health: migrant health guide

Advice and guidance on the health needs of migrant patients for healthcare practitioners

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/dental-health-migrant-health-guide

TodayInahurry · 14/09/2023 13:39

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 14/09/2023 13:39

Not from the point of view of “stop them at any cost”.

Im concerned about the people on the, who are so desperate as to risk everything to get here.

We need routes whereby people can apply for asylum from outside the Uk. We also need to process the applications of people who are here quicker.

Lastchancechica · 14/09/2023 13:39

Spinet · 14/09/2023 13:36

This isn't true. In fact comments about the 'Small Boat Crisis' in the paper referring to what Labour have announced about it this morning is what prompted me to start this thread. I don't have a fully formed opinion about whether or not illegal immigration is as big an issue as claimed but I do know that representing desperate human beings as a 'Small Boats Crisis' is nonsense.

Show quote history

It is true. It’s a crisis and a growing crisis at that.

ilovesooty · 14/09/2023 13:40

Spinet · 14/09/2023 12:35

I don't think Mumsnet is left leaning any more and I'm not sure how you'd measure that anyway. I did also say unscientific! I'm not claiming it has any value but I am glad to see I'm not the only one who feels as I do.

Show quote history

I agree. The site is crawling with racists and xenophobes, and some of them are on this thread.

TheGreatAlienInvasion · 14/09/2023 13:40

People have migrated for 1000s of years for the potential to have a better life

In the UK we have
"Free" education, then loans for higher education
"Free" NHS
"Free" benefits & housing
State pension
The chance for social mobility
A relatively welcoming & open society (compared to some other countries)
Some people have a family connection, where someone they know already live in the UK
A language that other people may already speak

"Free" Not actually free, because society pays through taxes & NI

I understand why people attempt to make the journey

I don't think that there is a way to stop people

Some people must arrive via plane & train too

The stats show that the largest amount arrived from Albania. Why are these people, not applying for work visas instead ?

Original poster

Spinet · 14/09/2023 13:40

Lastchancechica · 14/09/2023 13:38

Labour have historically always been very, very soft on immigration. Even now they are coming up with lame ideas about EU chats - even as Germany pulls out of the arrangement on the very same day!!! I don’t trust them to sort this out at all - it’s about to get even worse under Labour.

Just listen to the lovies on here. Borders what borders they say, send better boats. This is their position. It’s frightening.

Show quote history

People have by and large been pretty civilised in their discussion on this thread even where they disagree. This kind of language does not help the debate it just polarises further. Stop it.

OP posts:

Lastchancechica · 14/09/2023 13:40

Labours great plan seem to be to take more migrants and build over the green belt to provide housing for everyone.

Daisy1103 · 14/09/2023 13:40

It worries me as it generally seems to be young, undocumented males coming. And year on year the numbers are getting higher and higher. I think this year it is expected to be between 65000 and 85000.

Lastchancechica · 14/09/2023 13:41

Spinet · 14/09/2023 13:40

People have by and large been pretty civilised in their discussion on this thread even where they disagree. This kind of language does not help the debate it just polarises further. Stop it.

Show quote history

That is my opinion.

You asked for it.