How bothered are you about Small Boats?

[Spinet]

I think the idea that people think Small Boats with illegal immigrants on them is a really pressing issue is made up by politicians to have something to campaign on. Am I right? Is this a pressing issue as far as you're concerned?

I'm not really talking about immigration/ asylum seekers in general, just the small boats everyone keeps mentioning. If you're worried about people dying in the channel I get that, but do you think people finding their way here illegally is a major issue for our country at the moment?

I think it's clear I don't but I will accept I'm wrong about this being a made up issue if the majority disagree with me.

If you want to vote YABU= this is one of my top ten concerns. YANBU = I don't think it's a top ten issue for the country.

Nobody has managed to explain to me how 225,000 refugees - that's 0.54% of the population- cause issues with access to public services. Even with the most generous view- 14% of UK population born abroad (most of whom are NOT refugees, but legal working migrants) - I still struggle to see anyone explain to me HOW such a tiny fraction of the country , most of whom are taxpayers and have no recourse to public funds, are causing the issues with access to services.
It is because they aren't.
Why are the coming to the UK? They aren't- we have far fewer refugees than most other EU countries. Why do they come here? Mainly because their either have family here or can speak English.

The law in the UK and internationally makes it quite clear that asylum seekers can transit other countries on the way to claiming asylum.

Do though feel free to start a campaign to leave the UN Convention on refugees.

https://levinslaw.co.uk/dinghies-in-the-channel-illegal-entrants-and-immigration-offences/

Why are they so keen to travel through Europe and attempt to get to the UK by boat. Why is the UK seen as so desirable?

@Sladurche
Can you explain, with valid sources, why the concerns are "legitimate" and showing clearly that "uncontrolled immigration is a real and growing problem". What are those problems?
There is literally an abundance of sources that will prove that uncontrolled migration is a real and growing problem for wealthy countries. The EU has seen a 30% increase in illegal immigrants this year alone and the USA is reporting record levels of illegal migration at the US-Mexico border.

Countless economists have proven that uncontrolled migration causes all kinds of problems and challenges for the host country. It can depress wages where the migrants have competing skills with the domestic workforce, puts a strain on housing and public services and can lead to an escalation of social and cultural tensions in communities.

I can tell you the biggest problem in this country (and in may others, such as Japan) is that we aren't having enough children to pay for the care, pension and health of an increasingly aged population. Read up on "dependency ratios" - ie taxpayer-to-dependent. It's currently 1:3. This is completely unsustainable in the long term. The average age in this country is now 45, our birth rate has dropped, but our population is living much longer after retirement than they used to, with increasingly complex needs. We already have a care crisis, 500,000 vacancies. This is only going to get worse
I am aware of this issue so don't need to read up on it thanks. The jury is out regarding the impact that falling birth rates will have on developed countries, especially with the dawn of the AI era on the horizon. Even if I fully accepted your argument (which I don't), uncontrolled migration would not automatically solve the problems that you identify. Migrants aren't all desperate to be care workers and don't necessarily have the skills to plug shortages that we have.

The other problem is cost of living- there is a wage stagnation while prices of everything rises phenomenally. The amount of "corporate welfare" - topping up wages with taxpayer money whilst corporations are literally raking it in getting record profits is also an issue
Again, see earlier in my post where I explain that uncontrolled migration can suppress wages and add further demand to markets thus driving up prices.

Exactly.

The hotel bills is entirely the governments choice.
They could for instance process applications promptly, or permit asylum seekers to work.

The thing that “bothers” me is the amount of poor people risking their lives and getting killed. It’s unutterably tragic. I’m also “bothered” about the people profiteering from it. And this vile government trying to make political capital out of their suffering.

It isn't.
The vast majority of refugees in Europe do not travel to the UK.

The UK by any measure takes a smaller proportion of refugees than other similar countries.

I also think if it’s not addressed we can see significant push back. This is a very tolerant country on the whole, but no one wants to feel their generosity is being abused.

I work in the judicial system, and the number of Albanian gangs coming through the courts and then disappearing entirely, only to resurface with a new identity /passport etc would horrify the public. They are also trafficking guns, drugs, trafficked women and girls etc.

I would say most people genuinely are not aware of how dangerous this situation is becoming.

Why anyone would be so flippantly suggest ‘bigger boats’ is beyond me.

Why do people prefer the Uk as a destination? Several reasons:

Our labour market is more flexible.

English is a global language so they are more likely to be able to speak some English.

Our lack of ID card culture makes it easier to "disappear" in to the grey market.

There may be exisiting communities from the same country.

Whatever people here think the UK has a reputation of being fair and non racist.

From an economic perspective I'm more concerned about tax avoidance whether by legal or illegal means. Funnily enough our tory government are very uninterested in ever raising this issue.

Although yes, I'm concerned for the welfare of people squeezing on to these boats and we need an easier means to apply for asylum.

The majority don't travel through the rest if Europe to get here, they stay in other parts of Europe. Most don't even travel as far as Europe.

I doubt this is an issue that will go away. It’s only going to increases things get more volatile o/s

So why are they risking lives by travelling on small boats to get here?

Why is it that asylum seekers are not allowed to work? It seems obvious to me that it would be hugely beneficial to them to earn money, start to find their place in the community, and help to fill the job vacancies here. What is it that I'm missing?

I think the fact that this current shower resorting to divisive 3 word slogans shows a general disdain not just for our fellow human beings fleeing from the shit they're fleeing from, but for us also. It's the Tory way. Cameron's lot did it with the their whole benefit scrounger line. They have and will never have any intention of improving things for the majority of the UK, just lining their own pockets and those of their wealthy mates. If you can't get a dentist appointment, doctors appointment, home, school place, etc etc, blame them for 13 years of neglect of services with zero investment into anything important ( crumbling school and hospital buildings a case in point) not immigrants. Don't believe everything they and the DM tell you. Oh and if you want things to improve and a government that actually deals with shit rather than just distracting and blaming minority groups, don't vote for them. Rant over. But yes OP, it is all bollocks snd YANBU.

It is not just the UK that has this problem.

Every country has this problem.

The USA has an issue with Mexican immigrants.

Mexico has an issue with immigrants from Honduras.

It usually depends on where the traffickers come from and sometimes the language they learn which determines where the immigrants go.

If the trafficker is British they’ll usually come to the UK because the traffickers knows the British rules and how to get round them.
If the traffickers are French then they’ll go to France and so on.

We can not just give out blanket visas. This is a nonsense. Everyone needs security clearance, background checks etc. Such naivety to suggest they all just go and get a job on day 2! You would never see them again!

The whole point of a detention centre is to process and filter. The system is overwhelmed because it’s just processed an extra million genuine refugees from Afghanistan, Ukraine and Hong Kong.

I'm not bothered by the fact that people are arriving by boat, but Ithe loss of life is shocking. And I'm appalled that there is such a massive backlog of asylum applications to be determined.

Speeding up the process would enable those whose applications are found to be without merit to be swiftly repatriated, and those whose applications succeed would be able to start working and becoming part of our society.

I'm also in favour of people being allowed to make asylum applications from other countries and think the government should take the French up on their offer.

I've worked with clients who've arrived as asylum seekers and their accounts of their stays in asylum hostels are horrific. In an ideal world, no-one would have to go through that, but especially no-one who's vulnerable and has just fled a terrifying situation. I also have a friend who claimed asylum, she says her experience in the 18 months she was in the hostel was worse than the fortnight she spent being tortured in prison in her home country.

But no, it's nowhere near my top 10 pressing issues the next govt needs to address.

People saying small boats are fine (and in fact we should provide better boats) are saying that these people are fleeing for their lives. People who would like to stop the boats are pointing out that their lives are not at risk in France. At some point they might have been fleeing for their lives but at the point they decide to leave France they are not fleeing for their lives. They would just rather be in the UK. They would prefer it.

I was listening to a programme on Putin and he is pushing people movement to EU as a way to destabilise

It may be roses on mn but that’s ignoring the potential for more discord

Its not desirable - its so arrogant to think the UK is some beaming golden destination above Europe. They take considerably more asylum seekers than we do.

They may have family or contacts here. They may speak some basic english already. They may know someone who has told them that would find it easier to find work here.

I think we should absolutely be engaging with the EU about how to handle the issue on a strategic joined-up level

The EU member states are too busy fighting amongst themselves:

BERLIN, Sept 13 (Reuters) - The German government has suspended an agreement with Italy to voluntarily take in refugees because Rome is not honouring its obligations under the European Union's Dublin rules...

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/germany-suspends-voluntary-deal-take-refugees-italy-2023-09-13/

And now we are running the risk of a potential Labour government making this a million times worse. They have no interest in limiting or preventing migrants and smugglers rackets.

Because there is no legal route for them to come here to claim asylum.