Page 40 | How bothered are you about Small Boats?

Spinet · 2023-09-14T10:19:38+00:00

I think the idea that people think Small Boats with illegal immigrants on them is a really pressing issue is made up by politicians to have something to campaign on. Am I right? Is this a pressing issue as far as you're concerned? I'm not really talking about immigration/ asylum seekers in general, just the small boats everyone keeps mentioning. If you're worried about people dying in the channel I get that, but do you think people finding their way here illegally is a major issue for our country at the moment? I think it's clear I don't but I will accept I'm wrong about this being a made up issue if the majority disagree with me. If you want to vote YABU= this is one of my top ten concerns. YANBU = I don't think it's a top ten issue for the country.

Lastchancechica · 15/09/2023 06:16

It had to be said the headlines this morning do not make good reading.

Even the guardian struggled to come up with anything positive to say.

lollipoprainbow · 15/09/2023 06:17

Lastchancechica · 15/09/2023 05:56

Despite op trying to bend the thread to vomit up her ‘preferred’ answer, that most people don’t care about small boats and it’s just a media led deflection.

Most people DO care.

For ethical and moral reasons.
For legal and safety reasons
For security reasons
For housing, services and space reasons

We don’t want our seas turning into watery graves by people smugglers and Human and drugs traffickers.

We don’t want uncontrolled volumes of people arriving and housing being built right across our green belt.

We don’t want more of Labour’s dodgy back room deals with the. EU that disadvantage us. Again.

What is this so unreasonable about that?

Edited

👏👏👏

curaçao · 15/09/2023 06:41

Lydiala · 14/09/2023 11:42

It’s basically negligible in terms of actual immigration.

The Tories claim to be anti immigration but are letting 500,000 new people in every year through legal routes.

Small boats is 10,000 ish a year. It’s the tip of the iceberg. Yet the Tories want us to focus on that so we ignore the half a million they’re letting in legally.

Edited

What? Where are you getting those numbers from? It's more than 45000 !!
People coming through legal routes pay a lot of money to come including the NHS levy and more importantly have to have sponsorship or.means of supporting themselves.

curaçao · 15/09/2023 06:43

saraclara · 14/09/2023 12:08

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Last week I spent hours trying to get emergency dental treatment for an asylum seeker. He was in agony from a broken and apparently infected tooth. I could find nowhere that would see him. I researched every dentist that he had any chance of getting to, and no-one could see him.

As for the free gym....words fail me. You really do need to be more discriminating about your news sources.

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You realise very many uk nationals are in the same position re emergency dental treatment

EasternStandard · 15/09/2023 06:52

So the 30k cap post gave the wrong impression

Now it’s been confirmed there is no upper limit the EU deal sounds madness

We get none of the economic benefit of remain but the hard part member states are infighting over

Just as numbers go up massively across the Med and mass displacement is on the horizon.And we don’t even have to.

What a dud deal. I know many want Labour to win on mn but I can’t see people really wanting that. It’s lining yourself up for extra hardship for no benefit

lollipoprainbow · 15/09/2023 07:04

Hedjwitch · 14/09/2023 12:10

The occupants of the small boats are not families fleeing war zones. They have crossed several safe European countries to get to the Channel. They are ecomonic migrants,predominantly male.
The boats,and their occupants,should be sent back to France ( after due health checks a d any emergency assistance required) and energy expended on finding and stopping the traffickers.

^this

Pushkinini · 15/09/2023 07:14

Lastchancechica · 15/09/2023 05:37

If a new party emerged right now Sir Keir would stand no chance, he is banking on not a positive vote in him or his party but on a punishment vote against the current government.

There is nothing progressive or hopeful about that. When push comes to shove will women really vote to erase themselves? Will brexiteers really trust Starm, a staunch remainer with Europe? Will conservatives vote Labour or hold their noses and vote for their own party? Does anyone anywhere in the red wall seats really trust Starm? Will those with skin in the game trust him with the economy after the financial meltdown in 2008? Is anyone looking at Raynor imagining her let loose in number 10?

The truth is the Labour Party have a trust deficit. They have a competence deficit and they are STILL even after all of this time to prepare wildly out of touch with the majority.

Edited

'Wildly out of touch with the majority' you say?

https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html

lollipoprainbow · 15/09/2023 07:19

Yellowlegobrick · 14/09/2023 13:15

Perhaps some of these "roomforrefugees" charities could also facilitate housing the families in vile b&b accomodation around the country.

Why do people from elsewhere deserve more support than people born here?

Exactly

Original poster

Spinet · 15/09/2023 07:20

The thing is that the question was never about Labour or about the Tories. I personally don't make any secret of the fact that I think the current Tory government is absolutely shite but that's not why I started the thread.

I started it because I heard a journalist say 'what do you have to say about the handling of the small boat crisis?' to an interviewee as if people entering the country in this way is established as a 'crisis' and one of the issues that people will be voting on when we get an election. I wondered if that was true which is why I asked.

The number of people who've voted shows that it's a topic people are interested in but a few posters have spent hours and hours and HOURS posting about why Labour and the lefties are shit as if a thread about 'Small Boats ' is a perfect way to bombard voters with anti-migrant messages.

Saw the same sorts of posts before the referendum only MUCH MUCH more skilled so I hope no-one is actually paying @Lastchancechica to do it. I'm sure they're not but her dedication is astounding.

The numbers on the survey speak for themselves though on the topic of whether 'Small Boats' is a top ten issue for Mumsnet members who voted on it.

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Alexandra2001 · 15/09/2023 07:22

EasternStandard · 15/09/2023 06:52

So the 30k cap post gave the wrong impression

Now it’s been confirmed there is no upper limit the EU deal sounds madness

We get none of the economic benefit of remain but the hard part member states are infighting over

Just as numbers go up massively across the Med and mass displacement is on the horizon.And we don’t even have to.

What a dud deal. I know many want Labour to win on mn but I can’t see people really wanting that. It’s lining yourself up for extra hardship for no benefit

There is no cap on the numbers crossing the channel though.... criticise Labours plans by all means but the bottom line is "whats the alternative plan?" Sunaks plans are not working, the numbers as you say will just keep going up... migrants still not yet on that barge... let alone sent to Rwanda....

I can also no meat on Labours plans in regard to numbers... he is seeing Macron next week and the EU may well tell Starmer "no we will not agree to UK being in Europol etc"

But Co-op with EU is the only way forward.

EasternStandard · 15/09/2023 07:23

Spinet · 15/09/2023 07:20

The thing is that the question was never about Labour or about the Tories. I personally don't make any secret of the fact that I think the current Tory government is absolutely shite but that's not why I started the thread.

I started it because I heard a journalist say 'what do you have to say about the handling of the small boat crisis?' to an interviewee as if people entering the country in this way is established as a 'crisis' and one of the issues that people will be voting on when we get an election. I wondered if that was true which is why I asked.

The number of people who've voted shows that it's a topic people are interested in but a few posters have spent hours and hours and HOURS posting about why Labour and the lefties are shit as if a thread about 'Small Boats ' is a perfect way to bombard voters with anti-migrant messages.

Saw the same sorts of posts before the referendum only MUCH MUCH more skilled so I hope no-one is actually paying @Lastchancechica to do it. I'm sure they're not but her dedication is astounding.

The numbers on the survey speak for themselves though on the topic of whether 'Small Boats' is a top ten issue for Mumsnet members who voted on it.

Have you seen Brexit threads on here? You’d think remain win by a healthy margin

I wouldn’t take mn for much

EasternStandard · 15/09/2023 07:25

We’ll see what happens with court but the only way to limit through international law is moving to another location

Original poster

Spinet · 15/09/2023 07:27

EasternStandard · 15/09/2023 07:23

Have you seen Brexit threads on here? You’d think remain win by a healthy margin

I wouldn’t take mn for much

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As I said a while back @EasternStandard I don't really take it to mean much. That was back before @Lastchancechica started filling the thread up so you might have missed it.

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EasternStandard · 15/09/2023 07:30

Tbh op I didn’t pay much attention to the news yesterday so I would have missed this EU deal

Now I see how bad it is, I think people would be mad to vote for it. Unless they want all the pain and mo benefit of belonging to EU and burden sharing - they chose an apt word

I get you and other ls don’t care about the issue, that’s fine, that may change over time as numbers ramp up

Notonthestairs · 15/09/2023 07:33

EasternStandard · 15/09/2023 07:25

We’ll see what happens with court but the only way to limit through international law is moving to another location

Rwanda will take 1000 over 5 years.

I'm not sure that's going to make the impression you think it will.

Dymaxion · 15/09/2023 07:35

I can't get excited about a 'deal' just yet, a) Starmer isn't in Government b) The Conservatives will probably nick the idea if Labour haven't already nicked it from them

EasternStandard · 15/09/2023 07:36

Notonthestairs · 15/09/2023 07:33

Rwanda will take 1000 over 5 years.

I'm not sure that's going to make the impression you think it will.

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Let’s see. But you’re effectively asking the first 100 to pay £5k to £10k to end up in Rwanda

Would you volunteer to fill the first places

What could a smuggler say to you to convince you it’s worth it?

There will need to be no loopholes in the law, but if not it’s a big decision to make.

Original poster

Spinet · 15/09/2023 07:37

EasternStandard · 15/09/2023 07:30

Tbh op I didn’t pay much attention to the news yesterday so I would have missed this EU deal

Now I see how bad it is, I think people would be mad to vote for it. Unless they want all the pain and mo benefit of belonging to EU and burden sharing - they chose an apt word

I get you and other ls don’t care about the issue, that’s fine, that may change over time as numbers ramp up

They're not voting for or against it - at least some people will be and many won't. Many will be voting about

Education
NHS
Infrastructure
Housing
The handling of the economy
Transport
Benefits

Etc etc etc... all the things the Tories have royally fucked up in my view and actually you can't hide. It's not a referendum it's a bit about who governs the country. Small boats or no small boats.

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Notonthestairs · 15/09/2023 07:37

And we've spent £140 million and God knows how many man hours and legal expenses.

inamarina · 15/09/2023 07:40

Spinet · 14/09/2023 14:27

If you are referring to a bunch of people as 'Small Boats' then yes that is dehumanising them. To my mind if you're prepared to risk death in the channel you probably are a refugee, but if you end up classified otherwise you are still a human being.

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To my mind if you're prepared to risk death in the channel you probably are a refugee

That might be your definition, but it’s definitely not the official one.

but if you end up classified otherwise you are still a human being.

Of course, but that’s what PP was also saying. If someone isn’t granted permission to move to a particular country, that doesn’t automatically mean they are being dehumanised.

It is important to distinguish between refugees and economic migrants though, because there a usually different immigration routes for them.

Original poster

Spinet · 15/09/2023 07:41

And I didn't attempt to bend the thread to my preferred answer- the numbers speak for themselves.

Most agree that small boats is made up as an issue.

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EasternStandard · 15/09/2023 07:41

Spinet · 15/09/2023 07:37

They're not voting for or against it - at least some people will be and many won't. Many will be voting about

Education
NHS
Infrastructure
Housing
The handling of the economy
Transport
Benefits

Etc etc etc... all the things the Tories have royally fucked up in my view and actually you can't hide. It's not a referendum it's a bit about who governs the country. Small boats or no small boats.

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Do you see where the extra funding will come from with Labour?

I’m not hearing many coherent answers on that, Rayner a good example recently

But yes people will vote for other reasons, going into climate pressures era with this deal is really something.

Original poster

Spinet · 15/09/2023 07:43

And the Tories under climate change much worse.

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Notonthestairs · 15/09/2023 07:43

You keep talking about a deal as if there is one. Opening discussions when you are not in Government and don't know what mess you'll inherit isn't a deal.

Original poster

Spinet · 15/09/2023 07:44

Notonthestairs · 15/09/2023 07:43

You keep talking about a deal as if there is one. Opening discussions when you are not in Government and don't know what mess you'll inherit isn't a deal.

Yep.

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