How bothered are you about Small Boats?

[Spinet]

I think the idea that people think Small Boats with illegal immigrants on them is a really pressing issue is made up by politicians to have something to campaign on. Am I right? Is this a pressing issue as far as you're concerned?

I'm not really talking about immigration/ asylum seekers in general, just the small boats everyone keeps mentioning. If you're worried about people dying in the channel I get that, but do you think people finding their way here illegally is a major issue for our country at the moment?

I think it's clear I don't but I will accept I'm wrong about this being a made up issue if the majority disagree with me.

If you want to vote YABU= this is one of my top ten concerns. YANBU = I don't think it's a top ten issue for the country.

You think it is centrist to say that woman should not be educated because it stops them having babies?

IDK what the Conservative Party have been doing since 2019 - Brexit took up so much time and political energy plus Boris Johnson at the helm

Significant external factors

Trumps withdrawal of US troops from Syria in Oct 2019
Fall of Kabul in Aug 2021

You were asking someone else, it’s not my post you are referring to

Can you answer my question?

@EasternStandard but why the sudden and dramatic increase in the small boat numbers ? what has suddenly made this route easier ? What has prevented the Conservative government dealing with this issue over the last 4 years ? Did they underestimate the situation ? Did they underestimate the resources needed ? It went from 2,000 to over 8,000 in one year and up to 28,000 the next ! Were they caught unawares ?

Then why did you quote me when you posted?

DuncinToffee
This deal under debate has a 30k cap and the ability to pay rather than take people

From your link;
There will be a minimum annual number for relocations from member states where most persons enter the EU to member states less exposed to such arrivals. This number is set at 30 000, while the minimum annual number for financial contributions will be fixed at €20 000 per relocation. These figures can be increased where necessary and situations where no need for solidarity is foreseen in a given year will also be taken into account.

Yes and?

I’m asking a direct question. I’m not sure why the confusion

If you want a limit on the number what would you do about any boats arriving outside it?

Were they caught unawares ?

I ask this because I cannot imagine for one second that there wasn't a report written somewhere in the bowels of Government that didn't predict this and make a pitch for more money/resources to counter it ? That every single person involved with the Government suddenly went 'gosh that's a suprise !' in 2022 when the numbers of small boat crossings reached record levels ?

What a load of utter bollocks

A limit on the number of what?

I’m looking at a document to check out this new EU member state deal and this is in it. Numbers are going up a fair bit

The first problem is that the pact is so inward-oriented that it fails to recognize the policy implications of the dire state of forced migration globally. The number of forcibly displaced persons has increased dramatically, reaching almost 80 million. According to the U.N. Higher Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), the number of refugees alone has gone up from roughly 15 million a decade ago to 26 million today. And 77% of the refugees find themselves in a protracted situation — defined as having remained displaced without a durable solution (such as voluntary return to their home countries following the resolution of conflicts, resettlement, or local integration) for more than five years.

Because of persistent conflicts, only 3.9 million refugees were able to return to their homes between 2010 and 2019, compared to roughly 10 million between 2000 and 2010 and 15.3 million in the 1990s.

Asylum seekers - would you have a limit?

And what would you do about boats outside it

Prime Minister Rishi Sunak is completely surprised that replacing each school in England every 400 years means that some are unsafe. He didn't know that Chancellor Rishi Sunak reduced dramatically the spending on school rebuilding.

I presume you are aware that putting a limit on the number of asylum seekers would require the UK to withdraw from the UN Convention on Refugees and rewriting of UK domestic legislation?

Dymaxion
but why the sudden and dramatic increase in the small boat numbers?

Travel by air/ferry/lorry/Eurostar was obviously greatly reduced during Covid - many of the countries involved would have been on our red list. Covid restrictions/test requirements meant more checks. Security was increasingly tightened up around the French ports/Eurotunnel after asylum seekers stormed the Eurotunnel site in 2015;
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jul/29/calais-one-dead-1500-migrants-storm-eurotunnel-terminal

Another reason could be that asylum seekers were previously using fake EU ID cards - particularly Albanian nationals. The Essex lorry deaths in 2019 made travel by lorry less appealing?

Trumps withdrawal of troops from Syria was fairly unexpected and over a short time frame - seemed quite impulsive

The orderly withdrawal from Afghanistan became a rout and the collapse of the Afghan government wasn't anticipated

So some degree of being caught unawares

But also lots of inertia

Ok so no limit

Why the fuss over the uncontrolled part earlier

So no 30k limit for burden sharing but unlimited numbers?

@EasternStandard but that kind of backs up my point ? this is not a sudden or surprising occurence, someone, somewhere in Government has all these facts at their disposal. They know what is happening around the world, have an idea of what impact that has re refugees, and know that the vast majority end up not far from where they were displaced.

This still doesn't answer the question as to why has crossing the Channel in a small boat become a thing and why have the numbers grown so quickly in such a short space of time ? And what have the Government done about it over the last 4 years ?

I think you are arguing that the Tories are currently allowing uncontrolled migration.

Am I correct?

jgw1
I presume you are aware that putting a limit on the number of asylum seekers would require the UK to withdraw from the UN Convention on Refugees

Why have Angela Merkel, Biden and Trump previously stated cap numbers on the admission of refugees?

Some other people are ignorant of the law? So?

Have you got more information on the German cap? I thought that wasn't possible in the EU and why the UK had to take back control?

I don’t quite get it either, but this discussion always ends up going round and round in circles I’m afraid…
‘Why are they risking their lives in those boats?’ >> ‘It shows you how desperate to flee they are.’ >> ‘But they’re fleeing France?’ >> ‘So what, why should France have to deal with them and not UK?’ >> ‘But they’re risking their lives to get here. What’s so special about the UK?’ >> ‘Nothing whatever. Other countries are much better.’ >> ‘So why are they coming here?’ >> ‘Maybe their uncle lives here or they know some English.’ >> ‘Is that a good enough reason to risk their lives?’, and so on…

You know what really bothers me most about that? That there are parents out there desperate enough to want a better life for their child that they are forced to send them to unscrupulous criminals, who do god knows what to them, to ship them inhumanely half way across the world, to
put them in inflatable boats to cross a sea that they don’t know they’ll survive, to
end up alone in a country where they have no way of supporting themselves.

it’s absolutely tragic and the bigger question is why the hell are we not helping them at the point they first need it? No child or young person or even an adult should ever have to go through that. Ever.