to think the UK has become awful?

[ma1formed]

I can't pinpoint when, but it feels like everything that was once pretty good is now quite awful

So expensive
No doctors
Uni costs for kids insane
Terrible rent / can't buy a house
Everyone seems quite unpleasant or racist

Is it just me?

Poorer areas took it out on the wrong thing (the EU) but the issue was those areas being left to rot by both Labour and Conservative governments since the 1970s. The UK has been far too London-centric and centralisation policies around other big cities like Manchester has just made it even harder for towns.

I like living in the uk

Its too late now.

Brexit damaged London's long-term growth rate.

Now, those same areas will get even less support because London generates less in tax revenue.

They are just going to end up poorer.

Agree. I don't think we recovered really after 08, but the amount of self-harm this country has done by voting for Brexit beggars belief. And the really, really sad thing is, there doesn't appear to be any obvious way to actually fix it.

Why should we all have to suffer because of those who voted leave?
You do know that 35% of those who voted leave are now dead.
Great job they did for us. Yet we all suffer now.

What a load of rubbish - so you have a list of of people who voted leave and your ticking them off as they die?

I've travelled extensively and still feel the UK is a shit hole. If I could leave, you wouldn't see me for dust!

So expensive - everywhere is

No doctors - not a problem were I am

Uni costs for kids insane - back in the day working class families got no help and was unheard of going to uni - now there are grants and scholarships

Terrible rent / can't buy a house - not just the uk

Everyone seems quite unpleasant or racist - maybe get offline or find better people to around. We are one of the most tolerant places.

That would be 6.1m people. With the widest interpretation method available, there is no way that is even possible.

The UK death rate 2016 to 2022 averaged about 629,000 per annum. That would suggest 4,403,000 have died since June 2016. The majority of deaths will be in the over 65 age group, not those too young to vote.

On the assumption there is an even distribution of Leave and Remain that would mean about 2.2m Leave voters have died. This ignores the upper and lower extremes eg, some of those who died were too young to vote. Let's taper that figure by 5% to get to 2.1m. That would be 12% of those who voted Leave. By the same calculation that would mean 13% of Remain.

@Mehmeh22 What’a stopping you leaving?

@cheezncrackers yes of course you’re right about those countries. People there live in appalling hellholes. But I think OP meant how far our country has fallen in comparison to other first world countries.

Or how far has our country fallen due to our own faults as a nation?

That is always something to consider regardless of wherever we are on any international league tables.

Isn't that how we work on ourselves?

I'm noticing that the people doing well seem much less likely to whinge about the UK 'going downhill'.

Well exactly, for some people it's a great place to live

I work with many Australian primary care providers - those working at the coal face on a daily basis - and the overwhelming theme from every single one of them is that primary care services in Australia are completely overwhelmed and unable to cope at the moment. There are also some very significant differences between the UK and Australia in key service provision - addiction for example.

Australian health care continues to rank amongst the best in the world in terms of equity and outcomes.

Like most other health care systems in industrialised countries it is facing a number of challenges, particularly labour shortages and an ageing population with rising rates of obesity and diabetes. There’s no doubt that patients are facing growing waiting lists but the situation is still a lot better than elsewhere.

Why would you day 50/50?

The deaths are heavily skewed to older ages. And when it came to voting for Brexit, the over 75s voted about 70% to leave.

If anything, that ration should be 70% leavers/30% remainers.

Addituonally, those deaths (older ages) are being continually replaced by younger voters who are very pro-remain.

Thats why Brexit polls are starting to till heavily now towards "it was a mistake" and we need to rejoin.

It started with Thatcher really. No such thing as society, every man for himself.
There was a blip of hope and better times in the late 90s and the 00s but because of the free market banks weren't regulated and ...oops...
The knock on effect of teaching your citizens that profit and personal gain are the only things worth having (for 40 odd years) is a population who (when the chips are down) are aggressive, self serving, frightened, un trusting, nihilistic and base.
I go into the city and by 5 pm on a Saturday the streets are full of drunk people spitting, swearing and intimidating anyone who gets in their way. COVID accelerated the feeling of alienation, when everything moved online and it became even harder to speak to anyone in real life. Supermarkets got rid of most of their staffed checkouts, libraries closed, green space got built on (because developers make profit and who cares if there is anywhere for kids to play - they are all indoors on screens anyway). People focused on their massive kitchen extensions and bifold doors- as long as their homes looked Insta worthy who gives a shit about their community, or even bothers to get to know their neighbours. Social media ramped up polarisation so that rather than speak in real life and try to get along, things are tribal and un nuanced.
We need real changes to the values we hold. People used to feel a responsibility to their communities. People use to feel shame when their children behaved badly, or when they were caught doing something anti social.
I don't know the solution. But more Tory government definitely isn't it.

Actually the Thatcher quote was “I think we have gone through a period when too many children and people have been given to understand “I have a problem, it is the government’s job to cope with it!” Or I have a problem, I will go a get a grant to cope with it” “I am homeless, the government must house me” and so they are casting their problems on society. There is no such thing! There are individual men and women and there are families and no government can do anything except though people and people look to themselves first.”

Given she said this in 1987, had been in power for almost a decade and had been slashing welfare and public spending... what on earth was she on about.... if was correct, she'd been PM whilst this had occurred.

As someone once said " its like saying there is no such thing as forests, just trees...."

Even then, Thatcher and the Tories were following far right free market economic thinking, Govt papers from her time as PM shows she wanted rid of the NHS.

The Tories have been in power for much of the post war period, if this country is run down (it really is) and poorly served, there is only one party to blame.

If I didn't have two kids, I'd be gone. But we have to consider them and the upheaval. I want to move to NZ for good but to do that, its quite hard to get a job while in this country even though my husband and I have skilled jobs.

I agree with you.
One of my biggest regrets in life is to not leave the UK in 2016 when we had the chance. My husband didn't want to go and I should have pushed harder. My children are all very academic and high achievers, I'm really hoping this can be a ticket out for them.

Well we emigrated to the UK with 3 kids from Australia and have never regretted it. Upheaval was very short lived.

If I hated a country as much as some on this thread I would be gone and I would make it work.

To be fair to the US, and in the interests of clarity, a comment on a specific issue in a certain city isn't exactly a presentation of an objective view, nor is the assertion that there are huge parts of America that are 'very troubled indeed and not pleasant to be in'.

The US certainly has its problems, but the culture definitely is more mutually supportive, less dog eat dog. Philanthropy is alive and kicking. People in general are law abiding and polite. Cities are not scenes of wild debauchery on weekend nights.

It's the country that invented the 4-way stop. I once tried explaining that concept to someone who had driven only in the UK and she was incredulous.