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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think the UK has become awful?

815 replies

ma1formed · 13/09/2023 20:26

I can't pinpoint when, but it feels like everything that was once pretty good is now quite awful

So expensive
No doctors
Uni costs for kids insane
Terrible rent / can't buy a house
Everyone seems quite unpleasant or racist

Is it just me?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
YouHaveAnArse · 14/09/2023 13:11

"Limit shit university courses- 'forensic science', 'sports science', 'cosmetology'."

I wasn't aware cosmetology was taught at degree level here, but given how big the sports industry is in the UK, up to and including teaching, it seems unfair to single out sports science.

People not volunteering atm isn't because we're a country of selfish bastards - it's hard to fit around full-time work, or the second jobs many are taking on now to cover increased living costs. If you're a renter you might not even be living in that area in six months' time should your tenancy end and you can't stay, and it's hard to get invested in a local community that might not be yours for long or promise the commitment needed.

Similarly, community classes in practical skills are a great idea but who teaches them, who funds them, who would realistically benefit given eg. dressmaking has a steep learning curve, is very time consuming to do (it can take a couple of hours for me just to fully cut a pattern, and I have the luxury of having a space big enough to accommodate an expanding table that I can use to properly lay out my fabric and redraft as needed) and a significantly more expensive way of having clothes compared with buying them based on cost of materials alone. Gardening and decorating, similarly useful to learn and fun to do, similarly of little practical use to someone who lives in a flat that their landlord won't even allow pictures to be hung in and which might be the case for them indefinitely.

Maybe if the four day week ever happens people can use their fifth day to do something they wouldn't otherwise be able to do.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 14/09/2023 13:13

And this bizarre system for adolescent and children’s mental health.

Wait 18 months for a CAHMS appointment to see a psychiatrist . Because GP can’t prescribe anti depressants to under 18.

18 months of feeling shot and trying to cope with exams and other teenage shit.

Its like a third world country.

Teddleshon · 14/09/2023 13:19

@ma1formed I agree that Germany (and France) have far better health systems and outcomes than the UK but both are an insurance based system. As are the more successful health systems around the world such as Australia.

Given the NHS budget is fast approaching £200bn an 8% or so annual increase in spending is just unaffordable. Particularly now that almost half of UK households pay no income tax.

BloodyHellKen · 14/09/2023 13:19

User135644 · 14/09/2023 13:00

People are living too long is the harsh reality.

Yeh, those bloody old people it's all their fault 🙄

LondonPapa · 14/09/2023 13:20

MariaLuna · 13/09/2023 20:34

It's the fucking useless government innit....

Austerity, Brexit..

Never knew England had potholes....

5th biggest economy?? Really??

Where is the money going?

Not where it's needed, that's for sure.

We are now the 6th largest economy after India. The problem with the British economy is that it overwhelmingly relies on London and the South East. This article by the FT shows how stark the difference is between London and the regions when compared to other countries.

Is Britain really as poor as Mississippi? | Financial Times

The answer says much about the monopolarity of the UK’s economic geography

https://www.ft.com/content/e5c741a7-befa-4d49-a819-f1b0510a9802

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 14/09/2023 13:25

Teddleshon · 14/09/2023 13:19

@ma1formed I agree that Germany (and France) have far better health systems and outcomes than the UK but both are an insurance based system. As are the more successful health systems around the world such as Australia.

Given the NHS budget is fast approaching £200bn an 8% or so annual increase in spending is just unaffordable. Particularly now that almost half of UK households pay no income tax.

I thought the Italian healthcare system was one of the best in the world?

l think it’s free.

WowIlikereallyhateyou · 14/09/2023 13:45

Ringpeace · 13/09/2023 21:16

We should compare ourselves to Germany, France and the Netherlands.

The standard of living for the 'average' person in those countries is far higher than for the 'average' Brit.

The sooner these corrupt, gaslighting shitehawks are booted into the political wilderness the better.

Yes, because Germany is doing just great! Germany is absolutely on its knees economically at the moment, so wouldn’t want to compare ourselves to them.

JaneyGee · 14/09/2023 13:55

For me, one of the core problems is overcrowding. There are just too many people squeezed onto this little island. A lot of the things you mention are made worse by the crowding. Why are we all stuck in tiny, overpriced rabbit hutches? Well, in part it's because there isn't the room to build big. And the demand is so high the developers know they can get away with building horrible little boxes and jamming them on top of one another.

It's the same with GP access. I can't get near my surgery half the time because
A) the traffic is unbearable, and B) so many new estates have been built around here, and so many new people have moved into the area, that the GPs are overwhelmed.

And as for people being nasty and rude, well what do expect? When you cram too many animals in a cage at the zoo, they start attacking each other.

PollyPaintsFlowers · 14/09/2023 13:56

algasport · 13/09/2023 21:25

Just look at the news. The UK is one of the safest places to live in the world in terms of climate, democracy and opportunity.
I've lived in Spain, Germany France Italy and the Far East and I know which place I'd rather bring my children up in.

Opportunity??

The UK has some of the worst scope for social mobility in the western world and opportunities for people to better themselves and improve their lives are getting less and less every year

toadasoda · 14/09/2023 13:58

Can't comment as I don't live in UK but just wanted to say I think British people on here can be a bit hard on themselves! UK to me is a very tolerant place and most people are polite and friendly. Im generalising hugely obviously but basing this on my experience of being there and those I've met elsewhere.

Teddleshon · 14/09/2023 14:02

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow Healthcare in Italy is not free at the point of use i. The way it is in the UK. For example many patients pay to see a Dr. Happy to be corrected but I think the only countries which have a system like the NHS are places like Cuba.

Couldn’t agree with you more Toad, British people are way too hard on themselves and love to think their country is awful!

DdraigGoch · 14/09/2023 14:16

DragonFly98 · 13/09/2023 22:12

Well yes as it should be.

Could do with it treating all forms of income equally, I see no reason why capital gains and dividends should get a lower rate.

ma1formed · 14/09/2023 14:17

@Teddleshon

@ma1formed I agree that Germany (and France) have far better health systems and outcomes than the UK but both are an insurance based system. As are the more successful health systems around the world such as Australia

Germany has zero private profits in its health insurance system. Insurers are strictly not for profit organisations. It's a very clever publicly funded system designed with the patient, and not profits in mind.

Australia's system is awful in my opinion. They pay hugely more than we do and only get basic coverage if not. Their insurance costs can be eye watering. Even those insured are often bankrupted by medical expenses as the insurer won't cover it or they are offered sub standard care if they can't afford to pay. I've read heartbreaking stories. Not as bad as America, but in my opinion awful.

Healthcare shouldn't involve any kind of profits as far as I'm concerned.

OP posts:
pilates · 14/09/2023 14:19

Also agree with @toadasoda British people are very hard on themselves and they love to moan. The grass is not always greener!

Teddleshon · 14/09/2023 14:29

I disagree re Australia. According to OECD data it ranks as one of the best in terms of equity and healthcare outcomes and is generally regarded as one of the best in the world. It’s not perfect of course.

The German system by all accounts works very well, as does the French but they are not the same as the NHS

Kendodd · 14/09/2023 14:38

With regard the state of the UK, for the last 50 years, we have mostly had a Tory government. I was trying to think if they've done anything that has actually really benefited the people. I was chatting to somebody today and couldn't think of anything.

Council houses sold and not replaced
Sale of publicly owned services and utilities
Vigorously opposing the creation of the NHS
Largely responsible for Brexit
The Poll Tax
They even opposed Labour banning the production of torture equipment in the UK in the 1990s arguing that it was good for business.

That's just off the top of my head.

This isn't to say Labour have been perfect, far from it.

PPI was a terrible idea (although actually started by the Tories)
The Iraq war (wholeheartedly supported by the Tories)
I'm sure loads of other stuff.

The Tories though, do seem to have just looted the country and sold everything to the lowest bidder every chance they get though. And Labour have done public good, setting up the NHS and state pension for example. They also seem to have historically been ahead on equality legislation, equal pay etc.

One good thing I do want to give credit to the Tories for though is the Good Friday Agreement (although it was cross party).

Charlotteowensdodgydad · 14/09/2023 14:41

@BloodyHellKen telling that you didn’t answer the question did you ?
And surely the OP meant now.
Why are you policing where the OP posts her thread ? Everyone knows AIBU and chat get the most footfall. Many PP are quite happy to attribute blame to the current shower for the decline of the UK not just me.

ma1formed · 14/09/2023 14:58

10% of bankruptcy in Australia is from medical bills. Fuck what the OECD says. That's nightmarish.

OP posts:
Teddleshon · 14/09/2023 15:18

All essential and urgent medical care is free or low cost in Australia. Dentistry is not included if you are over 18 (which may account for at least some of the bankruptcy figures). In the UK NHS dentistry is almost non existent now.

Incidentally, that bankruptcy statistic may sound shocking but there are around 10,000 personal bankruptcies a year in Australia so if it is correct then 1,000 a year are apparently due to medical bills. Last year in the UK hundreds of thousands people died while on NHS waiting lists which are now stretching up to 7 years. And of course people are bankrupted in the UK by medical/care costs too.

jgw1 · 14/09/2023 15:30

If anyone would like evidence of how awful the attitudes to other humans are in the UK, take a look at the latest small boats thread.

beAsensible1 · 14/09/2023 15:34

ma1formed · 14/09/2023 12:55

"Tolerant" of what?

I am always puzzled by this statement. We're Jews. I'm not sure why anyone is called on to tolerate anything

right.
what is there to tolerate about different ethnicities existing on the same bit of rock as you. get a grip.

The existence of different ethnicities is not a personal affront to you.

LuluBlakey1 · 14/09/2023 15:41

toadasoda · 14/09/2023 13:58

Can't comment as I don't live in UK but just wanted to say I think British people on here can be a bit hard on themselves! UK to me is a very tolerant place and most people are polite and friendly. Im generalising hugely obviously but basing this on my experience of being there and those I've met elsewhere.

It really isn't a very tolerant place. It is certainly not tolerant of sexual equality and women face misogyny every day - often habitual low level stuff but every day, sometimes much nastier abusive stuff including comments about appearance, sexualised behaviours like inappropriate touching, men who talk down to women and belittle them, who pigeonhole them, exclude them from decision-making at work, have it in their minds they will have children so don't consider them for promotions. It os continual. And that's without the extreme and- the violence. 95%+ of domestic violence is male against female. Stranger violence against women is almost 100% male. Sexual violence not related to a previous relationship os 99% male to female.

The UK is a racist country- casual racism is continual. I hear it every single day. Assumptions made, ingrained beliefs and attitudes. Then there is much more discriminatory or violent racism. It's certainly not all white against other cultures, it's culture vs culture and often involves religion between some groups. I have never felt as intimidated in my life as I do in Wembley in London. We have a family member who lives there and , if I visit alone, I am often the only white woman on the station and the way black men treat me is horrible. I have been scared by it. In shops people speak wholly in Indian or Middle-Eastern languages and will just ignore a white woman. I have seen young asian men in their 20s in groups following and making sexual remarks to teenage white girls who are alone, on one occasion following her in a car and trying to persuade her to get into it.

I am lucky in that I live in the north-east in a well-off little community by the sea. One of the benefits of being ignored by our government is there is less change here but what I do see here is insularity and ignorant behaviour most often from 20-40 year olds who can be just awful- gobby, loud, shouting about what they want, rude to others, dire parenting from groups of them, wasteful, no sense of decency- of course I'm not talking about everyone, not even a majority but lots. This morning a couple threw a pile of fast food stuff from their car window in Seaton Delaval. They were mid 30s I'd say, driving an old black Range Rover, she was orange faced, he had a shaved head. Both had tattooed arms. What's going on with adults who behave like that?
I'd leave the UK if we had a choice but DH won't leave PIL. I think he would have 10 years ago but I wouldn't leave my mam then. Soon we'll be too old. I'd go to Canada or New Zealand .

verdantverdure · 14/09/2023 15:58

My friend emigrated to Australia about 15 years ago and she always says I'd hate it there because of the casual racism.

She came back to the U.K. this summer during Stop The Boats and read the papers, spoke to all the elderly rellies.

She now thinks it's nastier here if anything.

toadasoda · 14/09/2023 15:59

I'm sorry about your experiences @LuluBlakey1 I don't know much about the race element but sadly I think misogyny exists everywhere. I'd be interested to know if there is anywhere on this earth where it doesn't?? Its actually depressing when you think about it.

Lazyusername · 14/09/2023 16:05

I feel as though things have deteriorated massively in the last few decades and I have a couple of comments on factors I feel have added to this.
One is that the "contract" has been broken for younger people (I'm talking 40 and under); the expectation that they will earn a good wage, own a home and do better than their parents has been dashed. So some have stopped caring or feeling that they have a societal responsibility and some are resentful of older people - the respect has gone.
This has led to things like quiet quitting. I was reading a thread on MN a while back where people were saying, "Who else here is getting away with skiving/doing half-arsed job?" The comments were quite eye-opening with people happy to say they were being paid but were not working and thinking it was really funny. The thing is, people are happy to admit this, but then they are angry when the service they get from the GP, Council or NHS is half-arsed as well because other people are doing it too.

And the Government, our representatives, are exactly the same.

It reminds me of something John Lennon said,
“The government will fix everything; it is all government’s fault; shake your fists at the government’. Well, we are the government. The people are the government, and the people have the power.”

The calibre of people we now have in Government is reflected in the calibre of people and the behaviour we now see accepted around us every day. Go to Japan and see how people show care and respect for each other and take pride in their jobs. I remember this attitude in the UK from when I was a child; the doctor feeling pleased to come to your home and help you, the police being proud of keeping their local area crime-free and so on.
This is what I think we have lost and I don't know how we can ever get it back.