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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think the UK has become awful?

815 replies

ma1formed · 13/09/2023 20:26

I can't pinpoint when, but it feels like everything that was once pretty good is now quite awful

So expensive
No doctors
Uni costs for kids insane
Terrible rent / can't buy a house
Everyone seems quite unpleasant or racist

Is it just me?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
Tambatamba · 14/09/2023 11:25

No it's not just you but this is what happens when you have a Tory government for 13+ years.

ma1formed · 14/09/2023 11:40

Regards the racism thing, I'm not saying other countries don't have worse problems; I'm saying the UK has become more racist.

We're Jewish for example and have personally experienced three hate crimes in our family the past two years after having none at all in the previous 3 decades. One by an actual self declared Nazi, one by a school child fgs, and one by a woman on a bus.

I think that hate / slide to neo nazism and general hate has been a direct result of our politics as well as the normalisation of characters like Lozza, Farage or even Trump. I think people are being radicalised to hate.

I also think a vast proportion of people unashamedly hold xenophobic views since Brexit, and that our media has been egging this on. We have almost glamourised it.

The entire attitude has gone downhill from where I'm standing, and the "free speech" brigade at times devolve into "hate speech". Our own politicians (Labour included) seem to egg this on.

Since Farage radicalised the nation, our politicians seem too scared to call a bigot a bigot. Probably because a lot of them are bigots themselves, but also because they worked out that poking hate is vote winner.

I'm really disappointed in England to be honest.

OP posts:
Tambatamba · 14/09/2023 11:48

ma1formed · 14/09/2023 11:40

Regards the racism thing, I'm not saying other countries don't have worse problems; I'm saying the UK has become more racist.

We're Jewish for example and have personally experienced three hate crimes in our family the past two years after having none at all in the previous 3 decades. One by an actual self declared Nazi, one by a school child fgs, and one by a woman on a bus.

I think that hate / slide to neo nazism and general hate has been a direct result of our politics as well as the normalisation of characters like Lozza, Farage or even Trump. I think people are being radicalised to hate.

I also think a vast proportion of people unashamedly hold xenophobic views since Brexit, and that our media has been egging this on. We have almost glamourised it.

The entire attitude has gone downhill from where I'm standing, and the "free speech" brigade at times devolve into "hate speech". Our own politicians (Labour included) seem to egg this on.

Since Farage radicalised the nation, our politicians seem too scared to call a bigot a bigot. Probably because a lot of them are bigots themselves, but also because they worked out that poking hate is vote winner.

I'm really disappointed in England to be honest.

I'm sorry to hear about what you've been through. Brexit has emboldened a lot of people to openly be the bigots they are I think.

PinkRiceKrispies · 14/09/2023 11:57

We are one of the most tolerant countries in the world. I almost feel like we have to be apologetic about our culture and traditions to make way for others.

Alexandra2001 · 14/09/2023 12:00

I think a lot of the UKs problems are to do with Austerity and Brexit...

What happens when we neglect the mtce on our houses?

What happens when we snub our neighbours?

Irony is no one in govt really believes in brexit

1dayatatime · 14/09/2023 12:04

@csiaddict

"Not to mention the postal service. There was a time when first class post meant delivered next day, and didn't cost the earth"

+++

I thought about this the other day after reading that a soldier in the trenches in France in WW1 could post a letter from the front and know that their loved one would receive it the next day.

Now if they managed to achieve this over a 100 years ago in a war zone being shelled, across bombed out terrain then over the Channel and then on to an address anywhere in the UK and all for free then things must have gotten really really crap since then!

LuluBlakey1 · 14/09/2023 12:06

bombastix · 14/09/2023 08:39

All you can hope for is that the Tory Party are flattened at the next election. Sorting this out is the work of a decade at least.

It is the work of a generation- not a decade. 25-30 years. It's about re-establishing a culture in this country that is based on:
Treating the environment and nature with respect- animals and waterways and land and the air we breathe.
Teaching the next generation how to parent children properly- poor parenting is a huge part of our problems.
Everyone well enough to should contribute to our communities. Everyone- run a local sports club, coach at one, volunteer for a charity, participate in clean-ups of beaches, parks etc- whatever it is. It should be part of our psyche that we do that.
We should run community classes/groups in things that encourage togetherness and mental well-being as well as teaching skills- art, crafts, fitness, walking, decorating, dressmaking, a MFL, sewing, camping, cycle maintainance and safety, gardening/growing/
allotments (anything) Can't have an allotment anywhere where we live because waiting list is 5 years- we need more.
Making people pay their way- through fair taxation (we all should pay more and those earning the most and big business should pay much more).
Reducing the 'benefits' culture that exists. Benefits should never be a choice as a way of living- it is now for far too many.
Being much more interventionist about what we allow to be imported and what we allow industries to produce. At the minute we allow any old shit to be imported and any old shit to be produced. Plastic tat and complete rubbish that ends up dumped and in landfill.
Removing the drain of public monies into private industries. There are things that should be nationalised to protect our standards and ensure funding is spent improving standards and not stripped out as profit. Adult social care, nurseries, all education, health care, dentistry, power, water.
Financial regulation of companies should be much stricter.
There should be absolutely no tax benefit to being rich, and nowhere to hide wealth.
There should be a wealth tax on property, paid annually instead of council tax. 0.5% of a property's value annually- with single person discount remaining in place.
Inheritance tax MUST be paid. Up the starting point to £1 million but on anything above it must be paid by everyone. It is currently paid by very few.
Jobs should not come with perks outside of a salary. People should pay their way.
Salaries paid to CEOs should be limited. It's disgusting what we pay hospital managers.
If we want decent public services, we have to find ways of paying for them.
Company accounts and pay outs to shareholders should be regulated. No shareholders should be allowed to strip money from employees pension funds.
Get rid of 'fast food'. It is nothing but a health issue and a pollutant of our environment.
Grow food. Why do we import apples? We can grow our own apples but we don't. We fly them in from round the world. We grew the best apples in the world and a huge range.It is capable of being a big industry. But we are too lazy to pick them.
We need standards in workmanship- they are shit. There are no real apprenticeships where young people are taught high quality skills. Brickie apprentices follow idle, sloppy builders around who can't be bothered to teach them skills. Same with most trades. There was a time our building standards were envied - not now.
Give up the idea that going to university is the be-all for everyone. It osn't. Most people would be much better off learning the skills we need to improve our future- in new power industries for example, market gardening, environmental protection,

Limit shit university courses- 'forensic science', 'sports science', 'cosmetology'. Waste of time.
Lower the grades required for medicine- the teenagers I have taught who would have been excellent Drs but got 2 As and a B at A level and didn't get in had other skills - with people- that many who do qualify don't have. They would have coped academically with support- universities need to provide tailored academic and study support to medics to help more qualify.
Do a deal for medicine, nursing, teaching - no tuition fees but you work full-time in this country for 10 years from the date you fully qualify or you pay your fees back.
Reduce the number of cars built- noone needs a new car every year or two years. It's environmentally damaging to produce so many.
The rich need to expect to make less wealth. That's the bottom line. At the minute we are all, and our environment, exploited by the most wealthy making money from us and from the state and not doing everything they can to contribute.

Angrycat2768 · 14/09/2023 12:11

Alexandra2001 · 14/09/2023 12:00

I think a lot of the UKs problems are to do with Austerity and Brexit...

What happens when we neglect the mtce on our houses?

What happens when we snub our neighbours?

Irony is no one in govt really believes in brexit

I agree with this. Covid caused many more problems, partly because austerity meant that we had little to no resilience in services and then had to buy stuff and fix things in am emergency situation . I don't think we are more racist than many countries in Europe ( although I think if we implement PR we will get to see just how many people vote for a hard/far right party). I do think this is a country run for the old. I don't think my children will have a future here, and am encouraging them to broaden their horizons.

Feebleexcuses · 14/09/2023 12:13

I feel that people feel they are losing their sense of individual cultural identity but don't have an understanding of why. This manifests as racism.

Teddleshon · 14/09/2023 12:13

I dread to think what the financial position of the country would be like now following the £400bn or so spent on covid if it hadn’t been for austerity.

Tambatamba · 14/09/2023 12:19

Teddleshon · 14/09/2023 12:13

I dread to think what the financial position of the country would be like now following the £400bn or so spent on covid if it hadn’t been for austerity.

😂😂 yeah right

Tambatamba · 14/09/2023 12:20

The reality is that Covid broke the NHS, because the Tories stripped and stripped and stripped it to nothing.

BloodyHellKen · 14/09/2023 12:21

Charlotteowensdodgydad · 14/09/2023 10:13

@BloodyHellKen so have the tories done a good job ? That’s the crux of the matter. Individually you’re doing great, but what about the rest of the country ?
Brexit going well ? NHS functioning half decently, likewise schools, criminal justice system ? Surely any intelligent person votes on a government’s record.
Too many folk on here live a nice sheltered existence in the home counties or prosperous market towns and really haven’t got a clue what it’s like anywhere else.

No, the crux of the matter based on the OPs original question is 'has the UK become awful' and I answered that.

The OP didn't state a timeline or political reason for the perceived awfulness to have happened so I'm using my lifetime of 50 odd years as it's the only experience I have and as I said up thread IMO there have been peaks and troughs (and different governments).

If the OP wanted to garner public opinion on if the Tory govt had managed the country well over the last x number of years she should have asked that instead, and possibly put the post in the politics thread as well.

DownNative · 14/09/2023 12:36

Ilikeicecream · 14/09/2023 10:39

Even if UK is better than other countries, public are noticing decline in their quality of lives.

If you lose your job and you have less disposable income as a family and make no efforts to find another, should your kids be ok in decline in the way they were living because there are families doing worse than you? What matters is you are used to certain standards and when rhey decline, it impacts you.

The OPs question is "AIBU to think the UK has become awful?".

The answer to that is no as we can see from the 2023 Best Countries rankings.

Their question is about the UK as a whole AND overall, but NOT about how people feel at the anecdotal, individual level.

As for your individual level concern vis a vis quality of life, the UK ranking in 2022 Best Countries was.....8th.

It's 9th in 2023.

So, in global terms the UK has experienced SOME decline. But NOT to the extent of "awful" as in the OPs thread title....🤦‍♂️

Alexandra2001 · 14/09/2023 12:44

DownNative · 14/09/2023 12:36

The OPs question is "AIBU to think the UK has become awful?".

The answer to that is no as we can see from the 2023 Best Countries rankings.

Their question is about the UK as a whole AND overall, but NOT about how people feel at the anecdotal, individual level.

As for your individual level concern vis a vis quality of life, the UK ranking in 2022 Best Countries was.....8th.

It's 9th in 2023.

So, in global terms the UK has experienced SOME decline. But NOT to the extent of "awful" as in the OPs thread title....🤦‍♂️

Edited

You keep clinging to the overall but this wasn't a survey done of british peoples views was it? and if you look at the things that matter, such as Quality of life, the UK from your own link, is not good at all.

What matters is peoples lived experiences and when it comes to soooo many things, its shite.. Roads, GP appts, NHS waiting lists, Schools, council services.. all in decline.

Teddleshon · 14/09/2023 12:46

@Tambatamba afraid the facts don’t support your statement that the Tories have stripped and stripped the NHS. Spending on the NHS has been above the OECD average in terms of percentage of GDP for well over 5 years now. Most people accept that the problems with the NHS are well beyond financial.

NHS spending was protected under Austerity.

ma1formed · 14/09/2023 12:55

PinkRiceKrispies · 14/09/2023 11:57

We are one of the most tolerant countries in the world. I almost feel like we have to be apologetic about our culture and traditions to make way for others.

"Tolerant" of what?

I am always puzzled by this statement. We're Jews. I'm not sure why anyone is called on to tolerate anything

OP posts:
chaosmaker · 14/09/2023 12:57

@LuluBlakey1 I agree with almost all of your post except the benefits bit. They do need to sort out fake claimants but it always seems that genuine claimants are not supported. Especially true when you look at how the state fails people with disabilities who used to have far more support to hold down jobs and didn't get sanctioned by systems designed to cut them off.

There also needs to be a lot more invested into the arts which brings in far more money than it costs. I think Equity said that it around £3 made for every £1 spent.

User135644 · 14/09/2023 13:00

topnoddy · 13/09/2023 21:57

The main problem is over population , you can't keep increasing the amount of people and carry on with the same amount of doctors , dentists etc .

People are living too long is the harsh reality.

ma1formed · 14/09/2023 13:01

Teddleshon · 14/09/2023 12:46

@Tambatamba afraid the facts don’t support your statement that the Tories have stripped and stripped the NHS. Spending on the NHS has been above the OECD average in terms of percentage of GDP for well over 5 years now. Most people accept that the problems with the NHS are well beyond financial.

NHS spending was protected under Austerity.

I always feel like views such as these are misguided. First of all because our NHS spending data is skewed. The tens of billions of covid wastage on failed systems and faulty products from Tory pals are included in this data. The vast sums paid out to private companies which were never paid before 2000 are also included. We might allocate similar money, but we spent a lot less if it on caring for patients.

That's why Germany spends only a tiny bit more than us but has almost twice as many hospital beds and 30% more doctors. Our NHS spending has gradually become siphoned off to private shareholders and patients are suffering.

OP posts:
Ilikeicecream · 14/09/2023 13:04

DownNative · 14/09/2023 12:36

The OPs question is "AIBU to think the UK has become awful?".

The answer to that is no as we can see from the 2023 Best Countries rankings.

Their question is about the UK as a whole AND overall, but NOT about how people feel at the anecdotal, individual level.

As for your individual level concern vis a vis quality of life, the UK ranking in 2022 Best Countries was.....8th.

It's 9th in 2023.

So, in global terms the UK has experienced SOME decline. But NOT to the extent of "awful" as in the OPs thread title....🤦‍♂️

Edited

Their question is about the UK as a whole AND overall, but NOT about how people feel at the anecdotal, individual level.

What is an overall country if you remove the experience of vast majority of people living there?

The OPs question is "AIBU to think the UK has become awful?".

While I agree awful is a strong word, but becoming awful in the context of OP, is UK deteriorating.

You must be in a very comfortable position, maybe a landowner or just prefer to be in denial.

UK had declined in the rating you mentioned. And has managed to stay in top10 because it did very well on criterias like power, cultural attractiveness, these parameters are not as important to an average Joe. Access to good healthcare, education, decent wages to afford decent lifestyle, safety and clean air and water are more important. Just a few days ago, Liverpool Council declared itself bankrupt 🙄

ma1formed · 14/09/2023 13:05

The main problem is over population , you can't keep increasing the amount of people and carry on with the same amount of doctors , dentists etc

People really don't understand basic economics.

A higher population means more people. That means more taxes. More people consuming in the economy, buying goods and services. It means a buffer workforce.

Rising population shouldn't cause a shortage of anything. The government is supposed to use what they add into the economy to pay for the additional needs.

The only time this doesn't apply is if the people are not working, or spending money. Those people are a net drain.

OP posts:
TheThinkingGoblin · 14/09/2023 13:06

Teddleshon · 14/09/2023 12:46

@Tambatamba afraid the facts don’t support your statement that the Tories have stripped and stripped the NHS. Spending on the NHS has been above the OECD average in terms of percentage of GDP for well over 5 years now. Most people accept that the problems with the NHS are well beyond financial.

NHS spending was protected under Austerity.

This is not correct.

Its the classic government sleight of hand.

"Hey look, we have increased NHS spending by 5% in real terms"

And they keep mentioning it and pointing to it like it was an "extra".

What they don't tell you is that because of UK demographics (population is older, sicker, and costs more) that 5% should have been 8%.

Over one or two years, that 3% diference doesn't sound like a lot.

But over 10+ years, that 3% annually compounds and leads to the problems you see today: not enough Drs and Nurses to care for the larger (and more expensive to treat) older population, as well as buildings that are not maintained/past their designed life.

Its basically not fixable now in thr short-term. Would take minimum 15 years just to get enough Drs and Nurses to meet the needs of the rapidly aging UK population.

DownNative · 14/09/2023 13:10

Alexandra2001 · 14/09/2023 12:44

You keep clinging to the overall but this wasn't a survey done of british peoples views was it? and if you look at the things that matter, such as Quality of life, the UK from your own link, is not good at all.

What matters is peoples lived experiences and when it comes to soooo many things, its shite.. Roads, GP appts, NHS waiting lists, Schools, council services.. all in decline.

Incorrect and you're cherrypicking.

For quality of life, UK was 13th Globally Overall and Top 10 in Europe in 2023.

Yet you say it's not "good at all"?

That doesn't compute with the rankings itself on Quality of Life measurement since it IS better than most of the world AND most of Europe to boot.

Perceptions are just that - Perceptions. And these can be faulty which is why countries are ranked according to methodology globally.

But sure, you can hold fast to the Anecdotal Fallacy instead.....🤦‍♂️

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 14/09/2023 13:11

This is not the country l was born into either. I’ve been on a nostalgia binge lately.

Watxhed the Royale Family. I just remembered that feeling of optimism and happiness in late 90’s/early 2000.

Then l was watching Outnumbered. Where Karen has an emergency dental appointment on Christmas Day. 🫨Imagine that now! Buy it was normal when that was filmed. 15 years ago?

Both periods had a Labour government. Although Outnumbered may have been Tory, but not long enough for them to destroy anything.

What have we come to?

Shit in our seas and waterways
low wages
high bills and power
stupid university fees
Falling apart health services
Shit public transport
Londoncentric

How can we as a country move for award from this?😖

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