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Slavery and Colonialism Are Everyone’s History

594 replies

GodessOfThunder · 13/09/2023 17:52

I was on a thread recently where posters were complaining of slavery and colonialism being “shoehorned” into exhibitions, and were strongly “pushing back” against it being given prominence as a topic in museums and at historic sites. Indeed, transatlantic slavery and colonialism often seem to be regarded as niche historical subjects of interest more to people of colour, and involving only a small number of rich white slave owners and colonial officials.

This perception however, does not reflect reality. Transatlantic slavery effected not only millions of Africans, but pretty much everyone in Britain too. Similarly, colonialism effected not only millions of subjects in the British Empire, but everyone “at home” also. The economy these projects fuelled changed what ordinary people ate and drank and what they wore. They changed how British people thought about non-European people in ways that continue to shape their mindset and create injustice today. Slavery and colonialism helped fund the Industrial Revolution and the jobs people in Britain performed, and much more too.

I’m not suggesting anyone today should feel guilty for these activities. But, these subjects are still all too often not regarded as part of all of our histories. This means attempts to give them proper prominence are met with resistance. If we are to understand British history at a public level properly there is still a great deal of work to do.

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GodessOfThunder · 13/09/2023 21:41

FirstYouGetTheMoney · 13/09/2023 21:29

As did Flodden, the Highland clearances, the Norman invasion, mining, shipbuilding, the Magna Carta, Rome, the loss of Empire, the Industrial Revolution, the reformation, and so many other things.

The idea that slavery should be more prominent than any of these isn’t tenable.

What criteria did you use to bring these events together?

What does “more prominent” mean?

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Chickenkeev · 13/09/2023 21:42

@Newusername1273 the lack of context was everything alright. Not that there's an excuse for violence. Bit i do find the lack of awareness in (parts of) GB re NI matters stunning.

Newusername1273 · 13/09/2023 21:45

I think it's improved since The Good Friday agreement and a lot of the reporting restrictions were dropped. There is a good documentary (actually there are a few) on BBC iPlayer about Northern Ireland if you're of a mind to watch them. First hand accounts from both sides of the divide and their experiences. One episode has stuck with me as it was about the hunger strikes. None of this was ever spoken about when it was actively happening (or maybe it was a I was too young to understand)

GodessOfThunder · 13/09/2023 21:46

Cyclebabble · 13/09/2023 20:59

I am Indian by heritage married to white DH. I would like to see more history presented from the perspective of migrant communities to the UK. Slavery should be part of this. Balance though is important. The UK played a big part in the slave trade and provided the economic resource which drove it. It did not however invent the trade and it largely purchased slaves from West Africans who also traded with the Arabs. It also eventually stopped the trade and led on stopping the trade worldwide.

I often debate the role of the UK in India and the role of the East India Company with my DH. It is amazing to think of a major corporate business with its own army, engaging in wars and plunder to further business interests. However that is our history. DH would argue that the white working class were also abused and exploited.

Thanks for the thoughts. Yes, I agree there are various chapters to the story all of which need to be told.

My original post mentioned empire as well as slavery and I think the history empire is even more poorly understood in Britain. There’s a perception it only effected people who were oppressed as colonial subjects, and therefore it isn’t relevant to the history of Britain domestically. But it actually had a great impact in terms of consumption, industrial production, British self identity and so on.

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Newusername1273 · 13/09/2023 21:48

GodessOfThunder · 13/09/2023 21:46

Thanks for the thoughts. Yes, I agree there are various chapters to the story all of which need to be told.

My original post mentioned empire as well as slavery and I think the history empire is even more poorly understood in Britain. There’s a perception it only effected people who were oppressed as colonial subjects, and therefore it isn’t relevant to the history of Britain domestically. But it actually had a great impact in terms of consumption, industrial production, British self identity and so on.

To understand Empires you have to understand the causes of Empires...

Chickenkeev · 13/09/2023 21:49

Afaik i can't get BBC player. Am ROI. I see most things on Reeling in the Years (RTE).

roarrfeckingroar · 13/09/2023 21:50

The Atlantic slave trade is just not in the shortlist of formative parts of British history, when you compare to events listed by PP like @Newusername1273

GodessOfThunder · 13/09/2023 21:51

JaneyGee · 13/09/2023 19:37

Yes, I agree. When Britain banned slavery throughout its empire, that was a huge deal. We had the largest navy in history, which meant we could enforce the ban pretty much anywhere – and we did. Slavery continued throughout the African and Arabic world, and many African and Arabic people, who were making money from slavery, accepted it as natural and bitterly resented British interference. In the 1840s and 1850s, there was even danger of war between Britain and the USA over this issue, again because we were trying to stamp it out.

There is this bizarre idea that colonialism, empire, slavery, etc, began in 1600 and were invented by Europeans. EVERYONE is guilty. The history of our species IS the history of colonialsm, slavery and empire. Yuval Harari writes that most humans in history lived within an empire. It's the natural mode of organization. Zulus, Aztecs, Egyptians, Incas, Arabs, Mughals, Chinese, Mongols, you name them, they colonised and enslaved others. The barbary pirates enslaved about one and a half milllion Europeans and Americans. In August 1625, for example, there was a raid on Cornwall and 60 local people were abducted and taken to Africa to be sold. Had China or India industrialized first, they'd probably have colonized us.

As for Britain getting rich off the back of colonialism, I'm skeptical. Woke, left-wing historians are doing all they can to make the case, often distorting and exaggerating things in the process. In reality, it was industrialization, science, technology and trade that made Britain rich, not to mention the exploitation of millions of poor white people, huddled in the filthy slums of London and Manchester and Sheffield.

Are you familiar with Catherine Hall’s work?

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Glowie · 13/09/2023 21:53

GodessOfThunder · 13/09/2023 21:34

My point is that most British people are fully aware of this specific part of history”

Do you have any evidence to support that? The existence of books and a TV show aren’t the same as internalised knowledge.

Also, note my original post was was about slavery AND empire. 34% of Britain’s population (IPSOS) still think the empire “is something to be proud of”. If they were “fully aware” of its history this would be an odd response.

You seem displeased that some people don't categorically hate the empire.

What our tiny nation managed to achieve is astounding. Considering the technology of the time and logistics (not to mention the will to explore etc), that alone is worth being proud of.

GodessOfThunder · 13/09/2023 21:53

roarrfeckingroar · 13/09/2023 21:50

The Atlantic slave trade is just not in the shortlist of formative parts of British history, when you compare to events listed by PP like @Newusername1273

Would you say that about empire too?

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Newusername1273 · 13/09/2023 21:54

Chickenkeev · 13/09/2023 21:49

Afaik i can't get BBC player. Am ROI. I see most things on Reeling in the Years (RTE).

Oh that's a shame. If you can find it by other sources the documentary I'm thinking of is called "Once Upon A Time in Northern Ireland" it's several episodes long and is a heavy heavy watch but it's stories that need to be heard.

Chickenkeev · 13/09/2023 21:56

Glowie · 13/09/2023 21:53

You seem displeased that some people don't categorically hate the empire.

What our tiny nation managed to achieve is astounding. Considering the technology of the time and logistics (not to mention the will to explore etc), that alone is worth being proud of.

At the great expense of others.

Newusername1273 · 13/09/2023 21:57

Chickenkeev · 13/09/2023 21:56

At the great expense of others.

And this is where the nuance comes in... not every bit of colonisation was done without the consent of the people/governments. A significant number were happy to cooperate with the British.

roarrfeckingroar · 13/09/2023 21:57

No, because the British empire is a gigantic factor in our history. And no it wasn't all bad. We spread democracy. It was brilliant for Britain's d

Chickenkeev · 13/09/2023 21:57

Newusername1273 · 13/09/2023 21:54

Oh that's a shame. If you can find it by other sources the documentary I'm thinking of is called "Once Upon A Time in Northern Ireland" it's several episodes long and is a heavy heavy watch but it's stories that need to be heard.

BBC seems to be very well locked down! I will keep an eye out though, thank you!

roarrfeckingroar · 13/09/2023 21:58

^for Britain

FirstYouGetTheMoney · 13/09/2023 21:58

GodessOfThunder · 13/09/2023 21:41

What criteria did you use to bring these events together?

What does “more prominent” mean?

Just the first few that came I to my head, and a clearly had a larger effect on British life than did a few rich people having slaves.

More prominent means how much attention should be given to them in history lessons. I’m not going to get on board with the idea of some foreign folks being shipped to America from Africa and making a few people rich is a more important piece of British history than being invaded and conquered by the Normans.

GodessOfThunder · 13/09/2023 22:00

Glowie · 13/09/2023 21:53

You seem displeased that some people don't categorically hate the empire.

What our tiny nation managed to achieve is astounding. Considering the technology of the time and logistics (not to mention the will to explore etc), that alone is worth being proud of.

I find the idea of “pride” (and “shame” for that matter too) in relation to past events a fairly odd concept. Why get emotionally entangled with events you can claim no credit or accept no blame for?

But, if one is going to feel “proud” of something some other people in the past did, I find it odd to choose a phenomenon like the British Empire. Alongside the much mentioned railways, we have the Bengal famine, Morant Bay, Māori Wars, Amritsar, the Irish famine and countless day to day acts of violence and oppression against millions of people on a day to day basis.

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Chickenkeev · 13/09/2023 22:02

Newusername1273 · 13/09/2023 21:57

And this is where the nuance comes in... not every bit of colonisation was done without the consent of the people/governments. A significant number were happy to cooperate with the British.

Well i suppose i am (naturally) biased. But like, back to an earlier point, the trouble it caused here.... so it's unsurpring your average Irish person would not look back fondly iyswim.

GodessOfThunder · 13/09/2023 22:02

FirstYouGetTheMoney · 13/09/2023 21:58

Just the first few that came I to my head, and a clearly had a larger effect on British life than did a few rich people having slaves.

More prominent means how much attention should be given to them in history lessons. I’m not going to get on board with the idea of some foreign folks being shipped to America from Africa and making a few people rich is a more important piece of British history than being invaded and conquered by the Normans.

No one said you should.

Your argument is a false dilemma, a straw man.

Again, the empire?

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Spendonsend · 13/09/2023 22:03

I agree with you OP. It had a widescale societal impact and its quite hard to understand britains history and its place in the modern world without understanding the transatlantic slave trade and the colonies. Therefore its not really shoehorning it in to anything that was built or happened during that era. Its pretty integral.

I really dont get the angst about it.

FloorWipes · 13/09/2023 22:06

I think it is worth linking together as today people shop at temu/shein that we KNOW are made by actual living slaves and a lot of people tbh dont give a shit as long as long as the items are cheap. So some joined up thinking could change lives now.

Agree with this. It’s actually really helpful to be able to extrapolate from the past slave trade and other aspects of global trade to the horrors of the present.

FirstYouGetTheMoney · 13/09/2023 22:08

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Newusername1273 · 13/09/2023 22:09

Chickenkeev · 13/09/2023 22:02

Well i suppose i am (naturally) biased. But like, back to an earlier point, the trouble it caused here.... so it's unsurpring your average Irish person would not look back fondly iyswim.

And every culture will have its biases and opinions on an invading nation, it's only natural. But every nation has done to and been done to at some point in history.

Take America and their fight for independence, and their willful ignorance of the British plea to stop invading native lands... this is from the declaration of independence

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

They actively wrote in their declaration an up yours to the British and Native Americans over their expansion into their lands. Something the British tried to stop.

Ylvamoon · 13/09/2023 22:13

GodessOfThunder · 13/09/2023 21:16

But the point is, people don’t understand the effects of slavery and colonialism (I’m not just talking about slavery) on Britons in Britain. Ergo they are very much part of British history.

I think many do. The industrial revolution was possible because of colonisation and slavery.
People flogged to the cities in order to get work. The type of work that these former tennant farmers and labourers got was mainly based in factories with long working hours, poor conditions and very little pay. Some ended up as labourers in huge dockyards and lived literally from hand to mouth.

Then there are the big museums and stately homes. Established by industrialists and aristocrats. They got super rich from the colonisation, slave trade and cheap labour.
Some tried to justify their wealth by becoming philanthropists.

... and now to 2023: yes the remnants of the past are still around us. Most people have a level of awareness of the history of the place they live in or visit frequently.

But, most give a s* about history. Its in the past, its done and can't be changed.

It's boring and people can't relate to the people, places and actions of past generations. Just accept it, you can't change it.