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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Slavery and Colonialism Are Everyone’s History

594 replies

GodessOfThunder · 13/09/2023 17:52

I was on a thread recently where posters were complaining of slavery and colonialism being “shoehorned” into exhibitions, and were strongly “pushing back” against it being given prominence as a topic in museums and at historic sites. Indeed, transatlantic slavery and colonialism often seem to be regarded as niche historical subjects of interest more to people of colour, and involving only a small number of rich white slave owners and colonial officials.

This perception however, does not reflect reality. Transatlantic slavery effected not only millions of Africans, but pretty much everyone in Britain too. Similarly, colonialism effected not only millions of subjects in the British Empire, but everyone “at home” also. The economy these projects fuelled changed what ordinary people ate and drank and what they wore. They changed how British people thought about non-European people in ways that continue to shape their mindset and create injustice today. Slavery and colonialism helped fund the Industrial Revolution and the jobs people in Britain performed, and much more too.

I’m not suggesting anyone today should feel guilty for these activities. But, these subjects are still all too often not regarded as part of all of our histories. This means attempts to give them proper prominence are met with resistance. If we are to understand British history at a public level properly there is still a great deal of work to do.

OP posts:
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GodessOfThunder · 13/09/2023 21:16

roarrfeckingroar · 13/09/2023 21:13

But let's keep in mind that this is British history. So while our role in slavery - alongside many other European, African and Arab nations - should be taught, including our instrumental role on abolition, it is the history of British people we teach with a bit of the rest of the world. Hence teaching the world wars, Industrial Revolution etc - British history.

But the point is, people don’t understand the effects of slavery and colonialism (I’m not just talking about slavery) on Britons in Britain. Ergo they are very much part of British history.

OP posts:
Newusername1273 · 13/09/2023 21:16

roarrfeckingroar · 13/09/2023 21:13

But let's keep in mind that this is British history. So while our role in slavery - alongside many other European, African and Arab nations - should be taught, including our instrumental role on abolition, it is the history of British people we teach with a bit of the rest of the world. Hence teaching the world wars, Industrial Revolution etc - British history.

We would do well to teach our role in Ireland, especially given Northern Ireland tensions are bubbling again.

greengreengrass25 · 13/09/2023 21:16

Newusername1273 · 13/09/2023 21:15

There is a great film about William Wilberforce called Amazing Grace if you want a "history lite" version of the abolitionists. Ioan Gruffudd and Benedict Cumberbatch.

Yes it was very good

Clymene · 13/09/2023 21:17

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FKATondelayo · 13/09/2023 21:17

I'm not sure what your point is. I'm nearly 50 and was taught about the transatlantic slave trade at school. Before that I remember my mum and her friends eagerly watching the event TV series of the year - Roots. My children both studied it in primary school (it's on the national curriculum for year 4 as part of the Benin topic) and again at secondary - Roll Of Thunder Hear My Cry (about the legacy of slavery and sharecroppers) is on the reading list. Books about the slave trade are readily available (Underground Railroad was a best-seller a few years ago for example). Liverpool's Museum of Slavery is specifically about the subject but most national museums have a section devoted to the UK's imperialist past - in both Asia and Africa. I remember exhibitions on soldiers from the empire in the National Army Museum for example.

The only heritage type place in the UK where I've noticed it being airbrushed was at the Cadbury Museum which told the history of chocolate specifically in terms of Spanish colonisers in central and south Americas - completely ignoring West African chocolate production - which is the primary producer of cocoa beans for the UK market and the trade of which has a bloody history. Haven't been recently - this might have changed. Oh and at Bletchley Park there was a golliwog display with a rather defensively written sign.

My point is that most British people are fully aware of this specific part of history - more so I imagine than the Irish famine and the English Civil War.

Chickenkeev · 13/09/2023 21:22

Newusername1273 · 13/09/2023 21:16

We would do well to teach our role in Ireland, especially given Northern Ireland tensions are bubbling again.

It gets my goat that this is largely ignored.it was dreadful. And when i happened upon an english secondary school history teacher who openly admitted to knowing next to nothing about, i was wtaf!?! It is so so important!

GodessOfThunder · 13/09/2023 21:23

Newusername1273 · 13/09/2023 21:09

Yes. Because as any GCSE historian will tell you, to understand WW2 you need to understand WW1 and its fall out, how Europe operated with its royal families, how Russia fell apart due to the Bolshevik Revolution, the impact the invention of the tank and plane had, the impact of industrialisation and the machine gun etc on modern warfare...

I’m not sure exactly what your point is. Sure, causation is one analytical lens historians use.

I think your response was made because you think I am somehow suggesting British involvement in slavery was unique. I’m not. We don’t have to go into aeons of context and comparison with other peoples around the world to learn something about a historical phenomena. GCSE history on any topic would be impossible to teach, for example, if so. So why is this often called for with regard to slavery?

There’s no need to be defensive. You don’t need to feel guilty.

OP posts:
Fuckthatguy · 13/09/2023 21:23

OP, excuse my apparent slowness and stupidity but what point are you actually trying to make with this thread?

GodessOfThunder · 13/09/2023 21:25

Fuckthatguy · 13/09/2023 21:23

OP, excuse my apparent slowness and stupidity but what point are you actually trying to make with this thread?

Scroll up for the TLDR version. I replied to another commenter with it.

OP posts:
ntmdino · 13/09/2023 21:26

continentallentil · 13/09/2023 21:10

@ntmdino Oh give over.

The African slave trade was the industrialisation of slavery on a scale not seen before, and yes it was racially targeted.

And no Britain doesn’t deserve a whole bunch of credit for outlawing slavery, given that prior to that it got v rich off it. And no it doesn’t matter if the Dutch started the transatlantic trade or the British (who cares). And yes, it’s pretty obvious from correspondence at the time people in the UK knew very well that enslaving humans was immoral.

The money generated by slavery provided a handy bedrock for the Industrial Revolution, which, by the way, depended heavily on slavery - the cotton turned into cloth in Uk mills was picked by American slaves. This cotton became Britain’s biggest export, so the Uk was profiting directly from slavery long after it had banned it.

It would be better for everyone if the nations involved in slavery acknowledged their history. Self flagellation has nothing to do with the fact Britain doesn’t do this, although, as your post ably demonstrates, ignorance very much does. It’s not your fault you weren’t taught this stuff in school, no one was - but if you are going to spout off, do some proper reading.

Better if Britain acknowledged it? We didn't finish paying off the debts incurred by the freeing of slaves until 8 years ago!

There's quite some mental gymnastics in your post, there. You don't want to talk about the inconvenient details of the only country in human history to outlaw slavery and enforce it globally (without which, slavery would likely have still existed until recently), but you do want to go into detail of second- and third-hand economics to assign blame.

Again, you're trying to judge people in centuries past through the lens of modern values - the concept of ethical sourcing has only existed for the last 30-50 years, and would never have been practical earlier than that with the lack of global communication. But hey, what's a few details compared to modern pseudo-politics, eh?

MotherofPearl · 13/09/2023 21:27

Newusername1273 · 13/09/2023 21:12

You can't discuss the British people as one homogenous mass though, especially in the era we are discussing. The average working class person of that time didn't know or didn't care about much more than getting food on the table and keeping a roof over their heads.

You are missing the point. OP is not talking about individuals, but about the impact on British society (not to mention public institutions, economic systems, and cultural life). Of course different parts of British society experienced this impact in different ways.

Newusername1273 · 13/09/2023 21:27

Chickenkeev · 13/09/2023 21:22

It gets my goat that this is largely ignored.it was dreadful. And when i happened upon an english secondary school history teacher who openly admitted to knowing next to nothing about, i was wtaf!?! It is so so important!

The first time I came across any mention of Ireland was at undergraduate level. It shouldn't be an area of specialist interest it should be one of the core elements of our curriculum. It's still living history.

Newusername1273 · 13/09/2023 21:27

MotherofPearl · 13/09/2023 21:27

You are missing the point. OP is not talking about individuals, but about the impact on British society (not to mention public institutions, economic systems, and cultural life). Of course different parts of British society experienced this impact in different ways.

Sorry the quote dropped off that post it was a reply to someone a couple of posts up from mine.

Newusername1273 · 13/09/2023 21:29

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FirstYouGetTheMoney · 13/09/2023 21:29

GodessOfThunder · 13/09/2023 19:43

No one else seems to have had any problems understanding, but here’s the TLDR version just for you:

Transatlantic slavery and colonialism effected not only millions of Africans and colonial subjects abroad, but pretty much everyone in Britain too. Therefore, it’s part of everyone’s history and needs to be given more prominence accordingly.

I find the rest of your post perplexing and, to use your word, lacking in logical coherence. There are terrible wars going on in the world today, but does that mean, say the National Army Museum should be closed down and the funds diverted to peace keeping activities? You are conflating two totally different areas: teaching people history and ensuring human rights today (although that said, actually awareness of the first can help ensure the second).

Edited

As did Flodden, the Highland clearances, the Norman invasion, mining, shipbuilding, the Magna Carta, Rome, the loss of Empire, the Industrial Revolution, the reformation, and so many other things.

The idea that slavery should be more prominent than any of these isn’t tenable.

MotherofPearl · 13/09/2023 21:29

Ah sorry @Newusername1273. Apologies.

ShyCity · 13/09/2023 21:29

DatumTarum · 13/09/2023 19:09

No other piece of history provokes such "whataboutery" as the Atlantic slave trade.

Imagine doing this with any of the horrors of the first or second world war, Khmer Rouge or the Gulags.

It would be considered in very poor taste at the least.

I agree with this totally. I find the majority attitudes towards this topic on MN really fucking depressing.

CallumDansTransitVan · 13/09/2023 21:32

FirstYouGetTheMoney · 13/09/2023 21:29

As did Flodden, the Highland clearances, the Norman invasion, mining, shipbuilding, the Magna Carta, Rome, the loss of Empire, the Industrial Revolution, the reformation, and so many other things.

The idea that slavery should be more prominent than any of these isn’t tenable.

How dare you go throwing logic into the mix, 😀

Chickenkeev · 13/09/2023 21:34

Newusername1273 · 13/09/2023 21:27

The first time I came across any mention of Ireland was at undergraduate level. It shouldn't be an area of specialist interest it should be one of the core elements of our curriculum. It's still living history.

That is so shocking. With the UK actually getting bombed. I find that really strange. But sorry for the people who 'come across' as ignorant when it's entirely not their fault. I appreciate there is a vast, vast amount of history to cover, but the NI issue really floors me.

GodessOfThunder · 13/09/2023 21:34

FKATondelayo · 13/09/2023 21:17

I'm not sure what your point is. I'm nearly 50 and was taught about the transatlantic slave trade at school. Before that I remember my mum and her friends eagerly watching the event TV series of the year - Roots. My children both studied it in primary school (it's on the national curriculum for year 4 as part of the Benin topic) and again at secondary - Roll Of Thunder Hear My Cry (about the legacy of slavery and sharecroppers) is on the reading list. Books about the slave trade are readily available (Underground Railroad was a best-seller a few years ago for example). Liverpool's Museum of Slavery is specifically about the subject but most national museums have a section devoted to the UK's imperialist past - in both Asia and Africa. I remember exhibitions on soldiers from the empire in the National Army Museum for example.

The only heritage type place in the UK where I've noticed it being airbrushed was at the Cadbury Museum which told the history of chocolate specifically in terms of Spanish colonisers in central and south Americas - completely ignoring West African chocolate production - which is the primary producer of cocoa beans for the UK market and the trade of which has a bloody history. Haven't been recently - this might have changed. Oh and at Bletchley Park there was a golliwog display with a rather defensively written sign.

My point is that most British people are fully aware of this specific part of history - more so I imagine than the Irish famine and the English Civil War.

My point is that most British people are fully aware of this specific part of history”

Do you have any evidence to support that? The existence of books and a TV show aren’t the same as internalised knowledge.

Also, note my original post was was about slavery AND empire. 34% of Britain’s population (IPSOS) still think the empire “is something to be proud of”. If they were “fully aware” of its history this would be an odd response.

OP posts:
Mrburnshound · 13/09/2023 21:35

I learned about it in depth at primary school but accept this might have been a
School specific and not Nat Cur. I literally cant remeber what i did at seniors.

I think it is worth linking together as today people shop at temu/shein that we KNOW are made by actual living slaves and a lot of people tbh dont give a shit as long as long as the items are cheap. So some joined up thinking could change lives now.

To mis quote men in black - a person is nice but when people form groups they take the chance to be massive twats to other groups of people.

Theres a good exhibition at the docks museum in liverpool (if it still runs)

GodessOfThunder · 13/09/2023 21:36

Chickenkeev · 13/09/2023 21:34

That is so shocking. With the UK actually getting bombed. I find that really strange. But sorry for the people who 'come across' as ignorant when it's entirely not their fault. I appreciate there is a vast, vast amount of history to cover, but the NI issue really floors me.

Ireland is an important part of the history of the British empire.

Although most commenters are focussing on slavery, I agree Ireland’s past needs to be better understood too.

OP posts:
hattie43 · 13/09/2023 21:36

Slavery is going on today . Far better to focus on that .

Newusername1273 · 13/09/2023 21:37

Chickenkeev · 13/09/2023 21:34

That is so shocking. With the UK actually getting bombed. I find that really strange. But sorry for the people who 'come across' as ignorant when it's entirely not their fault. I appreciate there is a vast, vast amount of history to cover, but the NI issue really floors me.

The Troubles being on the news were part of my childhood and teenage years, I remember it vividly. But I never knew the cause of it. I remember the papers and some shouty man (Ian Paisley) and a man whose face couldn't be shown (Gerry Adams), I remember the bombings and bins being removed from train stations and police officers and soldiers being told to check under their cars for bombs. But I never ever learned the political history of Ireland or why they were bombing us or why the Catholics and Protestants hated each other etc.

It's so crucial to teach history of it's still causing effects now.

Fuckthatguy · 13/09/2023 21:37

I did and I’m still not getting it