Dartford Crossing protester, possible deportation

[WildAlphabet]

Essex radio did an interview with the partner of a protester who climbed the dartford bridge as part of Just Stop Oil.

The gist of it is he was surprised to get three years in prison, they expected a few months. The length of his sentence means he’s facing deportation, as a German national.

They did a phone in, and I was quite surprised that even the angry radio essex listeners they put on, who were massively against his actions, disagreed with deportation as additional punishment. Some wanted community service to make up for the loss they suffered, others name called, but they thought splitting a family was too much.

I was kind of intrigued how the mumsnet demographic would view it, often being quite rule-bound or conservative. Personally I disagree with the one year rule for deportation, particularly for non violent crimes. It’s out of sync with most of the world. I guess also as a second generation immigrant who could also potentially lose the right to stay here if wrongly convicted, it’s scary on a personal level. It’s played on my mind the last few days

Here’s an article https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-66756841.amp

So smart enough to know about eco issues but not smart enough to actually think through the consequences of his actions.

No doubt he did it not thinking about the potential pain he was causing to other people - risks, costs and potential death, as well as the effect it might have on his right to reside here.

Now he gets to face up to some of the consequences of his actions and all of a sudden my guess is it's "not fair".

I’ve been open about my personal interest, as a second generation immigrant I have many family members and potentially even me who could fall foul of this law potentially if wrongly convicted. I find that scary.
I don’t personally agree with or support the protesters on a personal level. I do disagree with their actions, however I disagree with and question the law change. I think it’s disproportionate for the types of crime caught up.
The trigger for this was a recent phone in- I thought mumsnet would massively disagree with the callers I heard because it’s a very conservative forum and quite intolerant of foreigners at times. The more average worker tends to live among and relate more to foreign workers and their lives.

You aren’t a UK citizen then?

I’m not, either, but know I’m not going to be falsely convicted of a serious crime.

I’ve covered this above.

This thread was triggered by a phone in, but I’ve also many times disagreed with the policy and don’t support the law in a wider sense.

Jamaican men, born here, with untreated mental health needs and hugely vulnerable have been deported. It’s shameful.

It’s a law that I find uncomfortable, and also personally scary.

I generally find many aspects of our immigration law upsetting. That children born here may be unaware of their status until adulthood then face deportation to countries they’ve never seen. I worked with a girl who discovered this when she applied to university. No fault of her own at all, yet she suffered. She worked hard, she did everything right. Even her mum wasn’t feckless. She’d been brought here, mistreated and left by a man. Then suffered ill health and been left with visa gaps due to poverty. She tried. She was in a mess. The girl missed out on university, also entered an uncertain adulthood of poverty and poor prospects. I don’t know what became of her, I met her a year later trying to raise funds through work. It was grim.

I'm pleased the govt has finally grown a set. Yes, deport and ban from returning after release.

It’s also ok to support black people who have done wrong. It’s not a simple ‘good and bad people’ thing.
Some young black men have been deported in hugely vulnerable states in mental health crisis. Some have grown up in poverty and had such a shit hand, been a product of this country’s failings then been deported to a foreign land when we’ve failed then. Some have been exploited children, then deported as young adults.
I support the ones who’ve made stupid decisions or poor choices too, I think they should be punished as any other person born here would be. They should feel the force of the law. I don’t support additional disproportionate punishment of deportation hanging over foreigners for non violent crimes or petty offences. I don’t think that’s ok. European or Caribbean or African, I think we should recognise children born and raised here as having rights, and I don’t think deportation should be such a trigger happy consequence.

The sentencing Judge would have taken into account not just the charges presented but the knock-on effect of the criminals actions. There is no way of knowing how many lives were seriously disrupted by his actions. EMS delays, deliberately putting EMS in danger, loss of earnings for hundreds of people, the financial cost to both rescue them and reroute infrastructure. It's not just one guy sat on a bridge protesting.

Did I make any such claim? Did I use the word 'most'?

I'm not big fans of burglars either. Or drug dealers. Let's face it, you don't get deported for non-payment of a parking ticket.

I don't particularly care what colour skin a criminal has. Nor even where they were born, I don't care if they can trace fourteen generations of their family to Yorkshire, I'd happily deport home-grown criminals if only there were somewhere that would take them.

Quite. To be jailed for anything more than six months for a crime, the sentence has to come from a Crown Court, not a Magistrate. Most petty criminals don't even get caught.

Then, if you don’t recognise the social disadvantages, poorer health care, poorer education and institutional racism many in the black community face that compound their life chances and likelihood of coming into contact with the criminal justice system then you shouldn’t be pretending to be on a high horse saying ‘oh but what about the non-whites’. You can’t just say ‘oh the good ones can stay’, and totally ignore the institutional racism. People are valid full stop

@WildAlphabet I'm also a second generation immigrant and the majority of my family and friends are non-uk born. I think that the disproportionate attention given to this case is entirely due to the deportee being a rich white west European man.

Not all deportees have committed crimes. Do you not understand this?

I'm sorry but do we (Britain) want to compare our the quality of our democratic processes and laws against the standards of the U.S.A.

This man was born in Germany. He was here on a work visa. He isn't and wasn't working. He has no reason or right to be here, and he is at no risk of harm in his home country.

The only reason he's getting all this sympathetic coverage is because of institutional racism - of which he is a beneficiary, not a victim.

When it’s a perfectly reasonable provision like this, why not?

When you are a guest in a country you can’t generally break the law and expect to be allowed to remain. This guy’s breach of his visa by leaving his job is reason enough to deport him.

My husband spends much of the year in France. Until he has his citizenship he too knows that he’s a guest and so faces different rules to citizens.

I think he should have thought about the potential consequences of breaking up his own family before he did the crime. I think it's perfectly reasonable for countries to want to deport foreign nationals if they disobey the law.

I would never commit a crime anywhere at all but I would be even more conscientious if I were a visitor in a country.

What is the data behind the headlines though. The facts are that there has been a disproportionate number of climate change protests that have had police intervention, the government has cracked down on these protests with their new draconion legislation, the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act gave the police more powers – powers they didn’t need – to put restrictions on protests.

Britain has a history of championing civil liberties, implicit in the right to protest is an element of the right to disrupt, the distinction between that and anarchy was clear prior to this new legislation. My Mum and Dad like many in the 1960s took part in protests as young socialists, it caused disruption but it was needed to alter the status quo. Protest is fundamental to democracy and civil liberties should be upheld, stop being brainwashed by the right wing press!

Don’t be ridiculous, and don’t be so insulting as to suggest someone more intelligent and better-educated than you disagrees only because they are “brainwashed.”

I get it that you’re having a bit of a tantrum about a criminal suffering the consequences of his actions but that’s a “you” problem.

He shouldn't have been so bloody stupid then should he? Actions have consequences. I'm fed up with these idiots blocking roads.

I think he should be deported. I would expect the same from Germany were a UK citizen to commit a crime there.

It says deportation if no legal right to be here. And they’re not talking about him specifically .

I’m assuming he does have a legal right to be here. If he was here before brexit? Or she can always marry him?

Sorry but how do you know that you are better educated than me - as I can't see much evidence of this!

Good riddance

No sympathy for any of these goons. Glad to see punishment being meted out for once.