to think that 4x4 drivers are the most selfish w@*&(*&s ever???

[redrobin]

It makes my blood boil! They drive their big childcrushers whilst on the phone, they tailgate other smaller cars, they use enormous amounts of petrol, they block up roads, they look threatening...how can people choose to drive something like that? Do they have ha a selfish gene, do they think they are just better than other people so rules don't apply to them, or are they just thick?

(NOTE this is only about town drivers, i appreciate that they are useful in the countryside).

Sometimes, I think Jeremy Clarkson is winning.

Peatbog, thanks for your calm and rational message

I really don't worry about 4x4s - all I've done on here is point out that they have a very unnattractive image, and there is no point people buying one and then complaining that they get dirty looks.

What I do find disappointing is that, as nicecupofwine pointed out, we don't stick together as mothers, but in this case in our mutual concern with what's happening to our planet. There are mothers in Africa whose children are suffering as a direct result of climate change and crop failure.

I'm not sure I follow the argument that says it's ok to run a 4x4 because it's not as bad as other high polluting or wasteful practices...?

"I'm not sure I follow the argument that says it's ok to run a 4x4 because it's not as bad as other high polluting or wasteful practices...?"

Oooh, that reminds me of my favourite environmental fact: A vegetarian driving a 4x4 is more carbon friendly than a meat eater in a small car.

No, I'm not saying it's 'okay' to run a 4X4 because it's 'not so bad really' Just, on the green side, it's not the worst thing and we could all probably cut our CO2 emissions ourselves before worrying about what others choose to do.

I'm hopeful that higher taxes and general disapproval will reduce 4X4s in this country at least, but am perhaps naive. It would though be mighty cool for the whole of London to be driving those little electric jobs which you can park sideways.

(BTW Aitch, originally it seems the figures for accidents came from a survey commissioned by TfL)

yes, i know who the figures came from, it's just that nothing i've read on them suggests they've been interpreted correctly. the TFL spokesman explained it that they were family cars so safer for that reason... no point in not comparing them directly with other family cars in that case.
tbh, as a journalist i know the way that stats are interpreted. BBC or not, it's about the most contentious headline. how else can house prices be plummeting and rocketing in the same week, off the same data?

" By SoupDragon on Wed 05-Mar-08 10:48:14
"I'm not sure I follow the argument that says it's ok to run a 4x4 because it's not as bad as other high polluting or wasteful practices...?"

Oooh, that reminds me of my favourite environmental fact: A vegetarian driving a 4x4 is more carbon friendly than a meat eater in a small car. "

Based on assumptions from the US about the livestock being fed grain. If you assume they are partially grass fed as is the norm in Europe you get very different results.

Aitch - good point, if anyone wants to see that look at the reporting about the recent anti-depressent study & then google for the actual study. It is not clear that many of the journalists had bothered to do this, or if they did have chosen a particular interpretation of it.

For me the main objection to 4x4s is that if they hit a pedestrian, the pedestrian is twice as likely to die. You can google for the studies behind that statistic too! No matter how careful the driver is, accidents can happen.

they could even be caused by a nippy little Astra, eh soupy? or a saab, duchess?

Actually, Upwind, it's to do with farting cows

Yes, sorry Peatbog. I was rolling what you said in with what a few posters had said earlier - didn't mean to misrepresent you.

And, yes, we could all do more, which is why I wouldn't pick on 4x4 drivers. I wasn't going to post here at all, but was genuinely shocked that some people by their own admission don't give a f**k.

Okay, I'm prepared to accept that figures can be interpreted in different ways, and a '30%' and '5%' here and there doesn't make any difference if your child's been killed by a 4x4 ...

So, do we only allow them to be sold under licence to sheep farmers, etc, who really need them? And then they're just not allowed into urban areas at all?

i think everyone driving them should be obligated to do an advanced driving course, for starters. i seriously think that would cut out a lot of the silly mumsies who drive them round here. and then hammer the fuckers with taxes if they live within a city boundary.

because it's not fair/sensible to expect country folk to have a second town car. but they really are too big for the roads round here, it's not safe. the amount of wing mirrors i see lying on our street, really. some of those will have been knocked off by vans, granted, but i've seen 4x4s do it as well.

Well firstly, all cars are potential 'child crushers.' That's not exclusive to 4X4 drivers. That's not to say i am not aware of the fact the child is more likely to die if hit by one but there seems to be an assumption that if a non-4X4 car hits a child, the child bounces up back to life to again.

Secondly, drivers of any kind whether a 4X4 driver, a van driver or a non-4X4 driver ALL use their mobiles and tailgate. Remember it's the PERSON using the mobile/tailgating you NOT the car!

The assumption that they use more fuel is laughable in some cases and shows the op knows bugger all about cars and her ignorance shows. Why do some people look at a big car and assume it must be a fuel gussler? It's the engine size NOT the body work size that makes the car a fuel guzzler! I think you would be suprised if you found out about smaller cars with big engines and how much fuel they swollow. So i think a little research on the op's half wouldn't go a miss. My dp's diesel 4X4 gets the same millage as my petrol polo! Now you wouldn't know that just by looking at it!

Threatening? Of course they look threatening! And that's the root of people's problem with them. No one wants to feel like the smaller person on the road! I think most drivers have a selfish gene and think the rules don't apply to them.

Lastly, it's all too easy to blame 4X4 drivers for polluting the planet and anyone who blames them are very ignorant indeed. If you hate 4X4s then that's fine, you hate them. But please don't try to claim you hate them because they are "fuel guzzlers that pollute the planet." If you really hated them for that reason then you would hate them being in the countryside too. Be honest with yourself, you don't mind them being in the countryside because there are fewer drivers in the countryside, more room and you don't feel "belittled" by them. They would be still polluting the planet if they were in the countryside!

People hate 4X4s because it makes them feel "small" on the road. That's the only reason. Not your bullshit "they are bad for the environment" crap. (unless maybe your a vegan/save the planet/earth mother type.)

just cycled to the chiropracters and it reminded me of what Desi said. If you see a black BMW or a 4x4 srart shouting 'you effing twunt'. Not one gave me the required 3 feet - its in the highway code ffs - and one tit was honking his horn cos he couldn't squeeze his giant car past me on the narrow road without getting me smeared across the sides thus mussing up his paintwork. He only had to wait 5 whole seconds. And then I caught up with him at the lights and past him in the cycle lane thats on that bit.
Sure, there are bad drivers in any car but large cars make some poeple, often blokes, act like complete tits who think they own the road. I've lots count of the nu,ber of arses who have told me to 'get on the pavement' 'get out my way' 'effing cyclists don't pay taxes so shuldn't be on the road'
Maybe if everyone had to cycle for 2 years before being allowed in a car they'd be better behaved.
But I suppose I should feel sorry for them. Needing a 2 ton wheelchair to get half a mile. Poor lambs.

oh well, at least your dh gets to feel 'big' on the road then, that must please him.

Oh dear, MrsXX. Think you are betraying your age. Most sane people want to save the planet these days, and that IS why they dislike 4x4's. Sooorreee...

needmorecoffee, i have to say why i see your point and agree that the driver should have been more patient, i hate it when cyclists gripe about drivers simply because there is a very small amount of cyclist who stick with the highway code.

Most cyclists go through red lights, cycle down one way streets, ride with no lights, ride on the wrong side of the road, hop on and off of the pavement, ride on the pavement and often get shirty with me because god forbid i am taking up the pavement with my pushchair so they can't get past. Or they just speed past almost knocking me and the pushchair over! Cyclists rarely put their arm out to say they are turning right, instead just drift out into the middle of the road without warning! I could go on but the point i am trying to make is that most cyclists need to take a test BEFORE they ride their bikes and most have probably never even looked at a highway code!

yes, that's right. it's the cyclists fault. you are funny mrsxx.

i certainly feel small when a 4x4 is up my arse blinding me with it's headlights

mrsxx are you for real?!

redadmiral, i know people are trying to save the planet but instead of blaming cars with big body frames they should be blaming cars with big engines. Cars with big engines are the problem because they use fuel and so if people were complaining about big engined cars polluting the planet then they would have a valid point.

Blaming cars just because they have a big body frame is not a valid point, it's an ignorant one. If people just hated 4X4s because of their size and they take up more room then i would agree with them. But people saying they hate them purly because they think they are the only car on the planet that is killing the planet are just plain silly. What's wrong with saying you hate 4x4s because they take up too much room?

AitchTwoOh, i never said my dp feels 'big' on the road. I think the only reason people hate 4x4s is because they feel intimidated and belittled by them. What's wrong with admitting this? I don't feel intimidated by them even when i am my polo, my dp certainly doesn't feel 'big' in his so i guess it comes down your general attitude towards big cars in the first place.

sorry that should be use more fuel!

er, i've always said i'm not fussed from an environmental pov, i find them unnecessarily intimidating and experience suggests that the people who drive them are much less capable and considerate than they think.

why has your DH got such a big car if he doesn't want to feel big? didn't you say something about human nature earlier? is he immune? gosh.

MrsXXX wrote 'People hate 4X4s because it makes them feel "small" on the road. That's the only reason. Not your bullshit "they are bad for the environment" crap. (unless maybe your a vegan/save the planet/earth mother type.)'

Actulaly that is the reason I hate them. I am a vegan enviromnetalist so thpppp

As for 'most' cyclists. Thats not true either. The majority of cyclists are law abiding and obey the rules of the road. Of course there are numpties who shoot through red lights (mainly lycra clad numpties) or cycle on the pavement and they are the ones you remember. You probably don't register the law abiders and you don't register law abiding 4x4 drivers. Its the plonkers that stand out.
So most is a huge genralisation. Obeying the rules keeps cyclists safe cos drivers then know what you plan to do. If you drift out into the road to turn right you are going to die. If you indicate and then take up centre lane as you are supposed to do then drivers must wait for you, as they are supposed to do. But generally they get cross at cyclists turning right and try and squeeze past or accuse them of 'drifting out'
I have never jumped a red lights or cycled on the pavement.
I do think the bad cyclists who go all out for speed with a sod evereyone else attitude (and they endanger us slower cyclists too) would do the same in a car. Its that sort of mentality. You try telling one that the speed limit on a cycle path is 15 mph and you get a mouthful of abuse, same as if you tell a twunt that parking on the pavement so a wheelchair can't get past is illegal. Same abuse.
But I'd rather be hit by a cyclist being a twat than a 4x4 driver.
And I'd rather everyone slowed down and took care of everyone else. I thought that this morning when standing with dd in her wheelchair waiting at a zebra crossing with one foot on it and watching car after car whizz by.
Feel like going out with a trolley of bricks like that guy did years ago and shoving it onto the zebra crossing.
Heck, even pedestrians barge past each other now and wont budge. I'm disabled and walk with a stick and fall easily and get pushed and shoved way too much.

why would any city dweller need a car with an engine bigger than a 1.2?