To not believe that my daughter is autistic?

[lionsandtigers21]

I know that may sound bad, but my dd17 seems utterly convinced that she has autism and ADHD and I just don’t buy it. She wasn’t always an easy child, but I don’t remember her having significant sensory issues or huge trouble with socialising. Now she’s a teenager, I think she may be depressed because she self-isolates so much but I think that’s the crux of it. She changed schools a lot as a child and I’ve also had issues in the past, so I accept that that may have caused problems. But I really can’t see how she would fit onto the autism spectrum. Her main argument is that, as a little girl, she would frequently go off on her own to collect stones (her special interest) and talk to herself instead of socialising or playing with toys, but she did definitely also have friends at that age. What she seems to remember as meltdowns seemed to me more like tantrums, and would normally occur if she was taken somewhere she didn’t want to go, although she did have unexplained tantrums as well (usually saying that she wanted to go home when she was already in the house and wanted to go back to being a baby) and I remember that she would cry dramatically as soon as I picked her up from school and all the way home at a certain period. She also told me that she would do things in class that would definitely been deemed socially inappropriate, liking uninhibitedly touching her private area in front of everyone until relatively late on in primary school and ignore the teacher who told her it was inappropriate, but I think a lot of kids are uninhibited? Things that might be considered ‘stimming’ she has always done to an extreme (she once scratched her face so much that I was convinced she had scabies!), but she could definitely make friends at school if she wanted to, even if she liked to be alone sometimes. Sensory-wise, I can’t really remember any issues aside from her hating me resting my head on her shoulder and putting my chin on her head, she also found things like nail filing very uncomfortable to witness. She insists that she struggles with social cues/situations today and engages in ‘masking’ behaviours where she unconsciously finds herself copying the speech and body language of those around her, but don’t we all do that? No one is the exact person at home and at school. She’s done things before that would suggest she’s a bit clueless, like exposing a lie that I told to my parents in a very excruciating situation (which I blamed her for at the time). There’s also more stuff that I could list, but does any of this override her apparent social competence as a child? I think the issues she has today are a result of lack of experience and isolating herself in a dark room rather than autism/ADHD? I don’t know, maybe I’m being facetious. Has anyone experienced this?
Thank you :)

Please listen to her. What may have seemed to you like usual childhood quirks most definitely felt different to her. Whether she is diagnosed as autistic or with ADHD or both she may still have friends in a social life. I got to the age of 40 before realising that not everybody struggles, the way I do. I wish to hell that somebody would have listened and understood why I was the way I was and got me assessed earlier. It would've saved me years of pain.

ASD can present differently as people are different: 'If you've met one person with ASD you have met one person with ASD'. However, if there are enough common 'traits' to trigger a diagnostic level then a formal diagnosis will be given or ruled out. So, I'd support your Dd if she wants to seek a formal Assessment.
She cannot self diagnose, nor can you rule it out. A Professional can.

My Ds is Autistic. My Dd was Dx'd 2 years later (I didn't think she had ASD, even thought I had raised her older sibling who I thought had even before dx). They are very different people. But they both have enough traits for an NHS diagnosis.
(be aware that ASD can often be co-morbid with other ND dx such as ADHD, & Dyspraxia, SplD such as Dyslexia & MH conditions such as Depression & Anxiety)

She is old enough to see her GP and discuss it and they can best decide if she meets the criteria for a referral. Its clear from your post you don't understand autism, which most don't, so don't rule out something you don't understand if your daughter is concerned herself.

Taking away everything your daughter has said/feels about herself and basing my comments purely on what you have said about her - she sounds like she may be autistic and could definitely benefit from assessment.

There's no point in arguing over whether she is or isn't. Get in touch with the GP and see what they think.

Do you think there's perhaps a part of you that just doesn't want your daughter to have an ND label?

@AmaryllisNightAndDay yes, some people with autism find this difficult. But the OP listed a whacking great list of different issues her daughter has and the ONLY reason she’s refusing to believe her daughter isn’t NT is because her daughter has no issues making friends or socialising. To refuse to believe something based on one tiny point that is only applicable to some people with autism is massively insulting. It’s as bad as being told you couldn’t possibly be autistic because you’re able to eat mashed potato just fine.

so (posted too soon sorry) I'd agree with what @PosterBoy says.
Self awareness is always a gift - your Dd's is leading her to consider ASD & a formal assessment will be invaluable too in helping her sort it out for the future.

N he nicest possible way, your ‘belief’ is irrelevant, surely, OP? If she wants to seek a diagnosis, she needs to see her GP and be referred.

You don't "buy" it? Your daughter is 17, she's plenty old enough to have her own valid and informed ideas about her own self. She's not trying to "sell" you on something for ulterior motives here. Your approach seems closed off.

To some of your points, autistic children (and adults) can make friends. They don't always have extreme sensory issues. They can enjoy socialising. So much more. You're clearly (and I don't mean this in a pejorative way) not very informed about autism beyond the initial stereotypes, and that's not intended as an insult, because few people are - an, in a sense, why would you be if you've never had reason to be before?

Ultimately, though, the points you've raised "against" her being autistic don't stand. They don't preclude autism. And please remember that she knows what's going on inside, and that's what matters with autism. It's a brain wiring condition, not a behavioural one, so while many autistic people display similar behaviours, it's not a prerequisite of the condition to behave certain ways.

She needs a proper assessment. Please support her and don't dismiss her concerns and her current belief about her own self.

She sounds very similar to me - I was diagnosed autistic in my twenties.

Please listen to your daughter.

I don't think you have any responsibility to accept a self-diagnosis. So, so many people are self-diagnosing this condition that it has become absurd and meaningless.
However, I don't think you should contradict her self-experience either, since this would be undermining and disrespectful and possibily incorrect. I would just metaphorically shrug and, if asked by her for your views, I would say 'perhaps you are and perhaps you aren't. It is a developmental disorder so something that can only be substantiated by a formal assessment.'
I don't think you should fret too much about whether she is or is not autistic. Given that the term is just a particular framing of particular clusters of behaviours and experiences (and lacks any real explanation of those behaviours and experiences) it seems to me that diagnosis shouldn't really serve much more than a bureaucratic purpose - a pathway towards getting forms of support that might be helpful. It isn't really the source of personal enlightenment that so many people want it to be. Especially younger people, who naturally want to find a key to themselves, a cure for uncertainty. Even if someone is autistic, they still have all the complicated and varied baggage that non-autistic people have. Many of the same questions they had before will still be there unanswered (or answered in an overly simplistic, one-note way).

It’s quite common for teenagers who know on some level that they feel different from their peers to latch on to a diagnosis and find ways to make their differences match the symptoms / markers. This is why it’s really important that diagnosis are undertaken by specialists.

but what I read here is that your daughter is feeling different, and lost, and searching for ways to better understand her experiences of life. That deserves your attention + curiosity + respect.

the last thing that I would counsel is deride / deny/ downplay her assertions. This feels like a place you could lean in to, and encourage + support her in finding a specialist to help her work out what might be different about her.

maybe it is autism, maybe it’s something else. The sooner she finds that out, the sooner she can incorporate in into her identity / find a supportive community / move forward.

I’ve worked with a lot of autistic people and some you can tell straight away because they have the stereotypical signs but not all of them struggle socially, walk on tip toes or hyper fixate.

The autistic spectrum is very wide and there was a thread a few weeks ago by a women who’s son was autistic but wanted a different name for it because her child had ‘severe’ autism and could never be left alone, never live independently etc whilst other autistic people can live independently and live normal lives.
Which I completely get.

There is also links between autism and other disorders like ADHD and there is a lot of crossover between symptoms of autism and ADD.

ND such as ADHD can be brought on by childhood trauma and that trauma can be passed down.
If she moved schools a lot, is it possible she had some challenges in her childhood?

This could mean she had developed ADHD and not autism, which is something you’re born with.

She feels she needs a label which is ok.

I also told my mum that I may have autism and ADHD and she told me I was just trying to get benefits, which I absolutely wasn’t.
My mum has MH issues and definitely some form of ND herself and I also had trauma in my childhood.
But her dismissing me made me feel like shit and having that label has actually made me feel better because I understand why I struggle with some things.

I never use it as an excuse to not do something or to act like a twat but just having that validation that I know what is wrong with me and why I’ve always been so different really helps.

I would encourage her to get diagnosed but know that females are very difficult to diagnose because of how we present.

But most of all just support her.
Tell her you’ll look into it and come with her to an appointment if she wants you to.

@off I totally agree with you post. I wasn't hoping to dissuade OP from seeking assessment, more just pointing out that there is a social contagion rife amongst her daughter's age group.

I hope that the daughter gets the help she needs, whatever that may be. She is clearly struggling with something whether that be ASD or something else that's made her susceptible to social contagion.

You sound like my MIL who is determined DP is not autistic, even though he has recently been diagnosed. It has put a wedge in their relationship because he does not feel listened to by her. Take your daughter to the GP and get referred for a diagnosis. Take time to listen to her before it is too late.

What is interesting is the extent that autism seems to have risen. Is it a result of better diagnosis? Or is todays world causing it?

Derail, apologies.

@AmaryllisNightAndDay To be fair, I think that, given their previous paragraph (saying that they were fed up with the view that autistic people can't have friends, and going on to talk about their autistic family members' friends), when the poster said "We make and maintain friendships and relationships just fine", they may have been referring specifically to their own family, showing that they disprove the blanket assumption.

I think it's more like you saying "bugger off" to someone implying that people who don't scream at loud noises and aren't picky eaters can't be autistic because all autistic people have sensory issues, rather than you saying it to someone stating that they can be signs of ASD.

Maybe I misinterpreted, but that was how I read the PP's post, anyway (can't remember the username).

I'm autistic and was diagnosed at 24, and I have to fully disagree with you here:

"It isn't really the source of personal enlightenment that so many people want it to be."

Getting diagnosed utterly changed my life. My life has not been the same since my diagnosis. I am free from the doubt, questioning and confusion around "wtf is wrong with me" that went before. I'm informed about how to take care of myself so I don't have my annual breakdowns resulting in job loss and burnout. I now, actually, think about my autism and my brain functioning much less than I used to. I don't think of it much at all. The diagnosis has allowed me to move on.

Everyone's experience will be different, but it very, very much is a life changing event for many autistic people to get diagnosed.

I always had friends but that was because I knew that I couldn’t do things on my own and was very dependent on others so making friends was a priority for me. often I’d just follow people around and they were too polite to tell me to go away.

My friendships weren’t normal and I wasn’t a good friends because friendship was about survival.

My eldest DS still isn’t diagnosed because their dad is like you I.e. uninformed and head in sand.

I can imagine my mum saying the same ..
I was diagnosed at 50

Given your description I would be quite surprised if your daughter was not autistic, but I am in no way qualified to make a diagnosis. I do wonder, do you see a lot of her unusual behaviour as in the ranges of normal because you were similar? Because this comes up a lot on autistic adult discussion sites. The parents tell the autistic child that 'everyone' does that, or that can't mean the child has autism because the parent did that, not realising why. Autism is genetic.

None of us on the internet can say if your daughter is on the spectrum for ASD or ADHD. The best way to listen to your daughter and answer the questions you are rising here is to make an appointment with a psychologist to have her assessed.

Until she's professionally seen, diagnosed (or not), each of us can talk about our experiences but none of us can ultimately help you or your daughter.

My mum didn't believe me when I told her I thought I was autistic so I wasn't formally diagnosed until I was 32. Please listen to your daughter and support her in getting an assessment.

Mum feels very badly about it now and blames herself that I had such a hard time in school.

My DD has just received a diagnosis, a couple of weeks ago. Like you I was a bit sceptical, but I think it was on here that I read that it's not my experience of "Sarah" that counts, it's Sarah's experience of being Sarah that's the issue.
We don't know what, if anything, she wants to do about it yet, probably some CBT / counselling, but she was relieved rather than upset with the diagnosis and ever since we agreed to put her forward for an assessment and started talking about it as a possibility, she has been calmer and happier, and our relationship has been closer. She wrote a lovely message in my Mother's Day card saying thank you for listening and taking me seriously, so I know it has meant a lot to her. It's something she can work with, to make sense of herself and others. I wouldn't avoid it.

Very odd post. You say you don't think she is autistic because she has friends but then go on to list a whole load of autistic-type behaviours, each of which you try to brush away.
Child inappropriately touches herself at school and you say lots of kids are uninhibited.
Her meltdowns were just temper tantrums. What exactly is the difference between a meltdown and a "temper tantrum" anyway?
She has done things which "might be considered stimming" to an extreme but she has friends so that's ok then???

You are trying to brush everything under the carpet with some kind of justification.
Let me put it this way, your daughter may or may not be autistic, but there is absolutely definitely something not right there. That is a child in distress - scratching themselves (self-harm), touching themselves in public (sexually inappropriate), meltdowns (signs of distress), depression, self-isolating herself in a dark room.
Why on earth haven't you been to the GP about this before now?
She needs help asap.

You should go to the GP with her and give her the chance to explain all this. Request help with the depression.
Request an autism assessment.