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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Are accents snobbish

327 replies

678somean · 08/09/2023 09:19

I know this is going to get me a lot of backlash. But I love a good debate so thought I'd pose the question....
I hate regional accents. I know they can't be helped but they sound so thick.
There was an article in the Guardian recently where they mentioned that people with regional accents go to speech therapy before moving to London in order to apply for jobs!
I think it's a smart move. But of course not a popular opinion.
I've worked with lots of people in high profile roles and honestly, whether people like it or not, the ones with RP are definitely taken more seriously and respected.
I've noticed all over England that the ones who are highly educated with good jobs rarely have their local accent and most have admitted that it's undesirable to have a regional accent and they are middle/upper class so don't speak with one.
Do others feel the same when applying for high status roles?

OP posts:
Oblahdeeoblahdoe · 09/09/2023 12:47

I've always wondered why the Newsnight journalist, Lewis Goodall doesn't have a Brummie accent considering he was brought up on a Birmingham council estate, and have just learned he had elocution lessons. Can't say I blame him and I say that as person with a Brummie accent! Unfortunately I don't think he would have had such a good career in broadcasting and have done so well at Oxford University with his original accent. Sad but true. And before anyone mentions Julie Walters and Adrian Chiles, both of their accents are very toned down.

Anyotherdude · 09/09/2023 12:52

I disagree. I have a Home Counties accent myself, but if I hear a Yorkshire, Geordie, Scots, Liverpool or Manchester accent, I think they are quite charming! I don’t personally like the Brummie lilt, but wouldn’t assume they should change it to sound “better” or fit in…
And - it works both ways, too: some people have assumed I’m upper class because of my accent, and have been surprised to find I’m solidly working class!

CoffeeCantata · 09/09/2023 12:59

I've only read about 6 pages, so I'm sorry if I'm the 50th person to say the accents cannot be snobbish. People can be snobbish about them though.

But at least you've said snobbish and not snobby.

I think it's stupid to make a superficial assessment of people based on their accents. One of my barrister son's lecturers had a thick Geordie accent but he'd come top in his year in the professional exams. He very cunningly exploited snobbery about accents to get the better of less intelligent colleagues who assumed he was a thick oik from his speaking voice.

Chickenkeev · 09/09/2023 13:07

CoffeeCantata · 09/09/2023 12:59

I've only read about 6 pages, so I'm sorry if I'm the 50th person to say the accents cannot be snobbish. People can be snobbish about them though.

But at least you've said snobbish and not snobby.

I think it's stupid to make a superficial assessment of people based on their accents. One of my barrister son's lecturers had a thick Geordie accent but he'd come top in his year in the professional exams. He very cunningly exploited snobbery about accents to get the better of less intelligent colleagues who assumed he was a thick oik from his speaking voice.

I love that! Fair play to him!!!

enchantedsquirrelwood · 10/09/2023 13:20

Technonan · 08/09/2023 15:34

Someone has probably already said this, so apologies if I am repeating things. Regional acents have roots that lie in earlier forms of English - they don't represent a 'fall from grace', they represent a different starting point. The different dialects of English have roots in forms of English that were often not mutually comprehensible, from the times when what we now call England (and a fair bit of Scotland) was divided up into several different kingdoms.

RP is an accent, not a dialect, and is relatively recent. It developed from the East Midlands accent in the 15th century. The East Midlands accent was associated with the centres of learning - Oxford and Cambridge, and was associated with London, the capital, so it gained prestige, but it didn't gain the (lessening) prestige is has now until the end of the 18th century.

It's just another accent. In earlier periods, different parts of Britain were the centres of power, particularly the Kingdom of Northumbria that contained the East Yorkshire ports, the great cathedral of Durham, and stretched a fair way into Scotland. If it hadn't fallen, we might well be seeing Geordie as the 'best' way to speak.

Is it snobbish to prefer RP? Probably, but more importantly, it suggests someone who is deeply ill-informed about the history and development of the English Language.

This is really interesting.

I wonder how Henry VIII and Elizabeth I spoke. It's a pity we don't have recordings from that time!

Maxus · 10/09/2023 13:27

So in your little world you want everybody to have speech therapy so they have a London accent. News flash London is not the centre of the world. It will be a cold day in hell before me and my kids would do this.

Thepeopleversuswork · 10/09/2023 13:30

Maxus · 10/09/2023 13:27

So in your little world you want everybody to have speech therapy so they have a London accent. News flash London is not the centre of the world. It will be a cold day in hell before me and my kids would do this.

@Maxus I don't think the OP is particularly keen on London accents either. She thinks anyone who doesn't speak like something out of an Ealing comedy is "thick". But her powers of comprehension and critical analysis are very limited and her grammar and spelling are that of an 11 year old so I really wouldn't worry about it.

hahahahahah · 10/09/2023 14:02

'I wonder how Henry VIII and Elizabeth I spoke. It's a pity we don't have recordings from that time!'

Ben Crystal has done some excellent work on 'Original Pronunciation', and in one video he enacts how Elizabeth I may have sounded if she spoke with OP. It is highly likely that Shakespeare's plays were performed in the accent represented as OP, especially since RP did not exist at that time.

There is also an interesting site on Accent Bias (which is called 'Accent Bias', I believe) which describes some of the 'newer' accents in the UK. One of these newer accents is General Northern English, which is, perhaps, the northern equivalent of RP.

The Great Vowel Shift, which took place between the ages of Chaucer and Shakespeare, influenced some accents. Most famously it resulted in the trap/bath and foot/strut split that became one of the ways through which some southern English accents may be distinguished from most northern English accents.

There was a time when people would not be accepted in the 'higher echelons' or society or in the older professions without a 'plummy' accent that indicated a public school education and an 'upper middle class' background. However, those days have passed, although accentism still exists and reflects wider prejudices in society.

jcyclops · 10/09/2023 15:38

I wish I had paid for a few elocution lessons so I would sound like Barbara Windsor, Danny Dyer, Ray Winstone and Adele. It's a real pain putting up with my regional accent that sounds like a cross between Alan Titchmarsh, Michael Parkinson and Patrick Stewart and makes me sound as thick as two short planks.

MasterBeth · 10/09/2023 15:58

jcyclops · 10/09/2023 15:38

I wish I had paid for a few elocution lessons so I would sound like Barbara Windsor, Danny Dyer, Ray Winstone and Adele. It's a real pain putting up with my regional accent that sounds like a cross between Alan Titchmarsh, Michael Parkinson and Patrick Stewart and makes me sound as thick as two short planks.

It's taken me a good few readings of this to realise that you are being oh-so-witty and ironic.

Your "joke" only makes sense if you believe that Windsor, Dyer, Winstone and Adele sound thick and Titchmarsh (Alan Titchmarsh!) Parky and Captain Picard sound smart.

Pure snobbery! Hyacinth Bouquet at her finest.

(Patrick Stewart is doing the most poncified version of his accent, anyway.)

jcyclops · 10/09/2023 20:54

I never said that Windsor, Dyer, Winstone et al sound fick.

Snobbish dogma requires adherents to fink th-fronting makes someone sound fick because it is almost exclusively a working class trait. Hyacinf Bucket would agree.

MasterBeth · 10/09/2023 23:02

So what are you trying to say?

Do you genuinely wish you sounded like a working class Londoner?

Do you really think Parky and Picard sound thick?

If not, what point is your joke trying to make?

Justdontforgethelegofrog · 11/09/2023 08:47

I personally find the Brummie accent really hot. Blame peaky blinders.

CoffeeCantata · 11/09/2023 11:22

I would never comment on someone's accent or lack thereof, but my MIL (long gone) came from a well-off but not posh London-based family. She'd had to endure life in the North of England (think of it, my dear!) because of her husband's work. She definitely had a London twang - not Cockney, but not RP either. She used to go on about how much she hated the Yorkshire people and their awful accent.

One day she was in the hairdressers and the lady asked her 'Ooh, now that's in interesting accent. Where do you come from?" Oh my goodness - she was majorly put out. She said 'I haven't got an accent - what did she mean?"

We had to break it to her that she did indeed have a slight southern accent. As a northerner (but with RP because I went to private schools) I've lived in the south for work for many decades and heard many prejudiced comments about northern accents. Clearly they assume I'm from the south too! But these people don't think THEY have an accent!!! I always point out that they do and they don't like it. 😁

MasterBeth · 11/09/2023 11:26

Anyone who thinks they "don't have an accent" is an idiot.

678somean · 14/09/2023 19:06

I keep getting emails and updates about this thread.
Why

OP posts:
678somean · 23/09/2023 01:36

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Thedogscollar · 23/09/2023 02:20

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

FGS are you still prattling on?
The last reply you had on this ridiculous subject was on the 11th Sept!

I very much doubt you work for the government in any capacity. You come across as a petulant child.

MissTrip82 · 23/09/2023 02:37

BarbaraofSeville · 08/09/2023 09:28

Ah, classism. The acceptable face of bigotry.

No-one would admit to being racist, homophobic or sexist, especially on here.

Yet people are happy to openly state that they assume that people who speak differently are stupid and uneducated.

You must be joking. People are constantly racist, sexist and homophobic on MN. Racist in particular.

A comment as stupid as this isn’t helping your argument, it’s just revealing you’re blind to other types of bigotry.

678somean · 23/09/2023 02:52

@Thedogscollar alright chill out... I only just saw the notification. I'm aware the thread is a few weeks old.
I do work for the government actually.

OP posts:
Thedogscollar · 23/09/2023 03:51

678somean · 23/09/2023 02:52

@Thedogscollar alright chill out... I only just saw the notification. I'm aware the thread is a few weeks old.
I do work for the government actually.

And a shit job you're make of that as well.

678somean · 23/09/2023 04:02

@Thedogscollar Lol. I've probably saved your life more than once.

OP posts:
Thedogscollar · 23/09/2023 04:28

Are you 007?

DuckRice · 23/09/2023 05:42

678somean · 23/09/2023 04:02

@Thedogscollar Lol. I've probably saved your life more than once.

Goodness. I work as a hospital consultant and have saved the odd life over my thirty year medical career. But I would never say something this wanky to anyone!

Witchcraftandhokum · 23/09/2023 06:45

The way you write and the ridiculous assumptions you've made based on what appears to a very limited life, leads me to think you've adopted an RP accent in an attempt to cover up just how thick you are.