To be angry at the ableism here on MN

[QuitChewingMyPlectrum]

I don't see any threads saying cancer is over diagnosed. Or used as an excuse for something.
More and more ableism is showing up here targeting the ADHD and autistic community and I'm pig sick of it.
Overdiagnosis conversations involving those who have no lived experience (your kids don't count, sorry) suck.
You have ZERO idea what it's like to be us.
And you say WE lack empathy.

Jeez. This is the thread that keeps on giving with the hard of thinking.

Do you understand the legal definition of disability? Do you understand the implications of an ageing society? Yes, the consequences of greater life expectancy is that people live with chronic conditions in their 60s 70s and 80s. We are talking about conditions like heart disease, diabetes, cancer, arthritis etc.

I put it down to the healthcare cuts leading to poor diagnosis and low life expectancy, or maybe it's good practices that led to the lowering of the amount and below EU average percentage but I doubt it. Disability in the EU: facts and figures - Consilium (europa.eu)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-65534448

Profit making companies skirt or flout rules all the time to make money. I don't know why you would think private clinics would be any different. Also you answered your own question, why would they turn customers away when they can cut corners and make more money? Do you really believe that there are no unscrupulous clinics in this area?

The internet is full of advice about what clinics to go to for cheap and fast diagnosis you can literally google it, look on Reddit or TikTok or twitter. It's not hard to find.

Well if you can read about it on Reddit or TikTok it must be true.🤔

As PPs have pointed out, many private providers are current or former NHS staff still working to NICE standards, which are the gold standard.

The level of casual bandying around of ill informed opinion is really depressing from people who have clearly got a bee in their bonnet about autism or ADHD, but have not even bothered to acquaint themselves with the NICE guidelines and understand the actual diagnostic pathways and assessment guidance.

The point of mentioning reddit and tiktok was to demonstrate that there are people actively seeking out diagnosis (as opposed to assessment) by any means necessary. I think you knew that though.

I note that you completely fail to engage with the credible news article I posted. I wonder why?

Regarding point 1, that must be very frustrating but I think saying the BBC article did damage is incorrect. Those clinics did the damage.

There is unscrupulous practice in this area. There are people that spread misinformation to make ND diagnosis look "attractive". There are people seeking to decieve to get a diagnosis. These things are happening and it's a problem, as you point out it hurts people who are living with these conditions.

The answer isn't to shut down discussion and reporting.

So three documented examples of shoddy work. How many private clinics did they go to that didn't diagnose him? And why did he create a clear bias and conflict of interest in the NHS appointment? There is no way to judge if the NHS doctor would have diagnosed, spent the same amount of time, etc. with him if he'd not told them who he was and what he was trying to prove. so we cannot actually compare the experiences are they were not equal.

Really shoddy journalism.

I don't know in what capacity you work, but ND children with significant behavioural challenges should be being appropriately supervised in educational settings in order to help them remain regulated, including 1-2-1 support or greater where indicated. I'm not sure what is happening in your work environment but it doesn't sound like the needs of either ND service users or staff are being met at the moment. Do you not have risk assessments in place for your staff and service users, and training and policies covering issues like challenging behaviour? Are you working in something like a soft play centre?

If you want parents to go around apologising for the unacceptability of their disabled children, then yes, lots of parents will do this out of compassion for staff members and social embarrassment, but fundamentally these children are not making a conscious choice to behave badly, and we need to think carefully about shaming and blaming narratives. These have profound consequences for the lives of disabled people who are not able to meet societal expectations of 'normal'. This does not make them or their families bad or feckless. Perhaps those 'normal' people who get cross with disabled children and their families need to understand the natural variation in human capacities and stop expecting everyone to be able to behave like them. Not everyone can, usually not for want of support/trying.

It's irrelevant what the NHS would have done had they not have known. The point of the NHS assessment wasn't to see if they are better but rather to have a thorough assessment to see if he actually had the condition.

Is 3 private clinics an acceptable number to be giving out incorrect diagnosis? Let's flip your question, how many did they not test that could be practising in the same way?

What number of clinics diagnosing people in this way is a problem?

I'm not criticising individuals but having no service is a shit service.

No point having NICE recommendations if no-one can access it in a timely manner.

Parents are left with the private sector because they can't get any help from schools, local authorities or the NHS and they end up being fined and taken to court because the child is not attending school due to mental health reasons. The whole system sets parents and children up to fail and spend money, educate your child yourself or be fined, and potentially go to prison if they can't pay a fine. None of that helps the child, even if the parents were feckless/rubbish/can't be bothered to take the child to school.

That said, there are some very good providers in the private sector but it isn't cheap. £115 a month just for medication and the GP will not accept a shared care arrangement - local policy.

It's irrelevant what the NHS would have done had they not have known. The point of the NHS assessment wasn't to see if they are better but rather to have a thorough assessment to see if he actually had the condition.

Of course it’s not irrelevant about the conclusion that the nhs would have come to if they had not known! How can you make a thorough assessment when you know the person most definitely doesn’t have the condition to start with? Of course they were going to agree with the journalist who’d come to them saying ‘look I’ve been bullshitting other people, but I’ll make you look good if you do as I say. You don’t want to look like an arse like I’ve done to other people, right?’. It was a completely unfair situation with a complete bias in mind. All it did was further prove how ineffective and covering their own tracks the NHS can be at times…

They didn't know he definitely didn't have it. Hence the assessment.

He gave the same answers to all the assessors. Did you read it?

Difference is - people
don’t diagnosis themselves or their kids with cancer, but they do with ADHD. Then use it as an excuse for awful behaviour.

Also I am confused at your point here.

Are you trying to say he does have ADHD and the clinics diagnosis was accurate and well done?

I agree with the trauma vs mis/overdiagnosis school of thought, and I say that with first hand experience.

It’s true that there are huge numbers of children & adults wrongly diagnosed with ADHD. Trauma is at the heart of their behaviours. It’s very sad because the trauma often never gets addressed.

What I find absolutely disgusting is when someone makes a post asking for advice dealing with their ASD child, and the response is:

”My mother would have hit me”, or “5 minutes with me and child would never do that again!”

First of all, physical punishment or intimidation
tactics are never ok towards an adult OR a child. OR an animal for that matter, as I’ve seen some posts like that too.

Secondly, if you do not have firsthand experience with a child who has ASD, ADHD, anxiety, or whatever the additional need might be - DONT COMMENT. It’s nothing to you, and your opinion is often wrong and harmful. Just because you were in the same shop as someone with ASD once, or your neighbor Susan has a friend whose cousin’s nephew is ADHD, doesn’t mean you know anything about it.

LegendsBeyond

Can you send a link with evidence for that.

what sort of traumas might lead to this please?

I have been told I have CPSTD but don't believe it, I do sometimes wonder if I have ADHD. i originally thought I had depression and anxiety since childhood but maybe that's not it.

I'm interested in the trauma/ND crossover. I was diagnosed autistic a couple of years ago, during the tail end of the pandemic. For other reasons I've been seeing a therapist for the last while and it turns out that my happy childhood wasn't so happy after all - my ACE score would be 4 (with anything over 3 considered high). I've spent the last few months now doubting my autism diagnosis.

As a disabled person the site has been very disheartening in terms of what people are willing to say behind fake names and keyboards

Benefit bashing is huge

It's all disability on here not just neurodiversities

I've seen some shocking comments in my time.

TikTok and shit programmes like CocoMelon and the lazy , stupid parents who let their kids watch them, are a major cause of kids having no attention span. I am sure at least some of these are labelled ADHD.

This is precisely what I don't understand. When I was a child, 50 years ago, children simply did not punch, hit or spit at adults. They just didn't. I've no doubt some stuggled with ADD, ADHD - attention span/being overly boisterous.

However, the point is, their behaviour was neither uncontrolled nor accepted as being 'just who they are' at the expense of others whether that's the physical assaults or the disruption to the education of others.

Also, I was only ever aware of one child with Autism and it presented in an obvious/classical way. He was very protected by his family and he did not attend mainstream school. No-one was cruel or abusive towards him, nor he to them. He had a particular 'fondness' for me and one of my brothers. I always felt privileged to receive his fondness and the big, beaming smile he always had for me.

Now, though, it seems to me a very high proportion of children are being put forward for a diagnosis.

I fully understand why teachers are leaving in droves preferring to not be punched and spat at or, indeed, being required to change nappies whilst attempting to educate. I also hear my nieces and nephews at the end of their respective tethers due to their children's education being constantly interrupted because 'wee Johnny' had three meltdowns today ..... not to mention the trauma to their children witnessing these meltdowns.

Again, I don't recall anyone in nappies at school and if anyone did have an accident, off they went to the school nurse to be assisted. Perhaps every school should have an on-site nurse/carer to deal with toilet needs as a priority, leaving teachers to teach?

I think the answer to the massive increase in diagnoses (either clinical or self) will only be discovered by examining both physiological, familial and societal inputs. I don't believe it is solely one or the other that has caused the incredible increase.

ADHD and ASD doesn't necessarily mean spitting on and hitting adults.

It can mean things like masking like hell to fit in, behaving well in class but not being able to learn due to concentration, attention span, difficulty focusing.

Please read more about it before coming on here to make ignorant comments.

It's not just about "no attention span" either. Please stop spouting such ignorant shite, it's embarrassing.