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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be angry at the ableism here on MN

290 replies

QuitChewingMyPlectrum · 07/09/2023 22:40

I don't see any threads saying cancer is over diagnosed. Or used as an excuse for something.
More and more ableism is showing up here targeting the ADHD and autistic community and I'm pig sick of it.
Overdiagnosis conversations involving those who have no lived experience (your kids don't count, sorry) suck.
You have ZERO idea what it's like to be us.
And you say WE lack empathy.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
Galiana · 08/09/2023 00:04

QuitChewingMyPlectrum · 08/09/2023 00:00

Agree. But there are more vulnerable. Who are we if we don't try and change things?

I do!

I absolutely do.

I'm a magistrate.

I fucking do.

Soontobe60 · 08/09/2023 00:05

QuitChewingMyPlectrum · 07/09/2023 23:00

Surely any doctor worth their salt wouldn't conform to parental or school pressure!

The issue is more complex though. Something like diabetes or breast cancer is diagnosed by scans, X-rays, blood tests, biopsies. They’re not diagnosed by patients listing unmeasureable symptoms. Evidence is anecdotal. People are very well informed - and if someone wanted to get a diagnosis of ADHD, they could easily do so by listing all the symptoms, regardless as to whether they have it or not. It’s open to exploitation especially when someone could end up with medication being prescribed that actually has value on the open market in some places.
The real skill is for clinicians to be able to filter out the fakers (for want of a better word) from genuine sufferers.
If the number of people being diagnosed with ADHD continues to rise at the rate it is currently at, then will someone with ADHD be considered to be neurotypical and those without it be neurodivergent?

PickAChew · 08/09/2023 00:07

Masterofhappydays · 07/09/2023 22:59

Bit of a tangent post here, sorry!

I was on a PD last week run by a neuroscientist. He said there is a whole group of people who have been diagnosed with autism or adhd, and medicated. However, these people aren’t neurodiverse, they’re actually victims of complex trauma, where the ‘symptoms’ present similarly to autism/adhd.

He spoke of doctors who claim parents come into their office begging for an adhd diagnosis for their child in order to get them medicated, and the pressure these doctors are under to conform to those pressures. He spoke of some schools too who push for a diagnosis of their ‘difficult’ students in order to obtain funding.

So I do think there are some people in some places who are diagnosed incorrectly.

I suppose it’s difficult as I guess some parents have blamed neurodivergence for their poor parenting 🤷‍♀️

I am neurodiverse so I do find this interesting.

Where is this?

PickAChew · 08/09/2023 00:08

Certainly on on the NHS. It's hard enough to even get on the pathway, these days.

Amwondering69 · 08/09/2023 00:11

QuitChewingMyPlectrum · 08/09/2023 00:00

Minimising diagnosis. Minimising the autistic or ADHD experience. Saying we just want drugs/benefits - need I go on?

As someone who’s life has been really hard trying to understand why my husband is how he is ,I have tried to get advice from MN and just shouted down!!
Husband is very happy with his personality and has been very high functioning but his general demeanour at times has been very hard for myself and the children.
Have never seen any suggestion about drugs/ benefits on the threads I have read …and I read many to try and understand/ facilitate my husband.

Galiana · 08/09/2023 00:12

PickAChew · 08/09/2023 00:07

Where is this?

Well that's interesting, obviously non NT women are more susceptible to rapey shit.

HOWEVER, we are not fools.

QuitChewingMyPlectrum · 08/09/2023 00:14

@Galiana I appreciate your work.
👏

OP posts:
chaosmaker · 08/09/2023 00:17

Masterofhappydays · 07/09/2023 22:59

Bit of a tangent post here, sorry!

I was on a PD last week run by a neuroscientist. He said there is a whole group of people who have been diagnosed with autism or adhd, and medicated. However, these people aren’t neurodiverse, they’re actually victims of complex trauma, where the ‘symptoms’ present similarly to autism/adhd.

He spoke of doctors who claim parents come into their office begging for an adhd diagnosis for their child in order to get them medicated, and the pressure these doctors are under to conform to those pressures. He spoke of some schools too who push for a diagnosis of their ‘difficult’ students in order to obtain funding.

So I do think there are some people in some places who are diagnosed incorrectly.

I suppose it’s difficult as I guess some parents have blamed neurodivergence for their poor parenting 🤷‍♀️

I am neurodiverse so I do find this interesting.

My asult partner thought he was autistic but suffered childhood abuse he thought he'd dealt with decades ago. It is interesting. Awful but interesting. There are also those of us for whom ADHD wasn't known about (or only the hyperactivity bit) especially with how it presents in women and we wait for a real diagnosis (as opposed to paying £400 for a pretend online one).

Important if you have medical conditions that can be affected by having ADHD and that affecting the managing of said condition.

babbscrabbs · 08/09/2023 00:26

Masterofhappydays · 07/09/2023 22:59

Bit of a tangent post here, sorry!

I was on a PD last week run by a neuroscientist. He said there is a whole group of people who have been diagnosed with autism or adhd, and medicated. However, these people aren’t neurodiverse, they’re actually victims of complex trauma, where the ‘symptoms’ present similarly to autism/adhd.

He spoke of doctors who claim parents come into their office begging for an adhd diagnosis for their child in order to get them medicated, and the pressure these doctors are under to conform to those pressures. He spoke of some schools too who push for a diagnosis of their ‘difficult’ students in order to obtain funding.

So I do think there are some people in some places who are diagnosed incorrectly.

I suppose it’s difficult as I guess some parents have blamed neurodivergence for their poor parenting 🤷‍♀️

I am neurodiverse so I do find this interesting.

My DC has a ND diagnosis and I actually think it's trauma based.

I think the root of the trauma was from me suffering stress and poor mental health during pregnancy.

Unfortunately their issues from birth made it v difficult for my mental health to stay well having only recovered towards the end of pregnancy and I wasn't the best parent as I was permanently and chronically sleep deprived for several years. I never purposefully or knowingly abused or neglected my child but looking back I was vacant and emotional. Honestly I think anyone in my situation would have been at the end of their tether, it was torture, so I try to be kind to myself.

Posting this because I wish I had known I could cause trauma to my unborn child (assuming I'm right in my gut feeling) by experiencing depression. I might have sought help sooner and removed stressors from my life.

Galiana · 08/09/2023 00:29

@chaosmaker, speak to me??

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 08/09/2023 00:34

Masterofhappydays · 07/09/2023 22:59

Bit of a tangent post here, sorry!

I was on a PD last week run by a neuroscientist. He said there is a whole group of people who have been diagnosed with autism or adhd, and medicated. However, these people aren’t neurodiverse, they’re actually victims of complex trauma, where the ‘symptoms’ present similarly to autism/adhd.

He spoke of doctors who claim parents come into their office begging for an adhd diagnosis for their child in order to get them medicated, and the pressure these doctors are under to conform to those pressures. He spoke of some schools too who push for a diagnosis of their ‘difficult’ students in order to obtain funding.

So I do think there are some people in some places who are diagnosed incorrectly.

I suppose it’s difficult as I guess some parents have blamed neurodivergence for their poor parenting 🤷‍♀️

I am neurodiverse so I do find this interesting.

I agree with this

XenoBitch · 08/09/2023 00:37

ConnieTucker · 07/09/2023 23:04

I was on a PD last week run by a neuroscientist. He said there is a whole group of people who have been diagnosed with autism or adhd, and medicated. However, these people aren’t neurodiverse, they’re actually victims of complex trauma, where the ‘symptoms’ present similarly to autism/adhd

I had the opposite in summer. PD trauma training and I said that the symptoms were the same for ADHD, so how many children with trauma are being diagnosed incorrectly.

The amount of children with trauma is alarming.

Or women given the label of BPD/EUPD when they are actually autistic.

LordSalem · 08/09/2023 00:47

The vast majority of people today are not decent human beings. They're cruel, critical, judgemental, selfish, ignorant, rude, loud and cold. This applies to any given situation. The semantics or variables rarely matter or make a difference.
Imagine where we'll be in ten years when middle aged people are acting like this now without a second thought and we're already suffering from gangs of teenage and younger kids daily as well. And they find it funny, big and clever to intimidate and attack adults as well as other kids, and vandalise as they see fit because they are getting zero comeuppance in any way whatsoever.
This isn't civilisation, it's who can shout the loudest and get away with anything.
Historically it's fucking pathetic.
ND? No one gives a shit. NT no one gives a shit. You're a target for abuse either way.
People aren’t people, they're vicious bastards who jump at any excuse to discriminate against whatever they decide (on a whim) is different to them,

Scienceadvisory · 08/09/2023 00:51

Why are you so dismissive of people whose experience of ND is through their kids being ND?

Coyoacan · 08/09/2023 01:01

There have always been lots of doctors who succumb to pressure. They used to blame patients for their overprescribing of antibiotics.

But please don't try to shut down conversations about these subjects. We all learn from them

Namechange666 · 08/09/2023 01:44

I agree. I got diagnosed at the weekend and I'm in my late 30s! I've struggled all my life and finally have answers. I'm inattentive adhd.

It makes me laugh that people accept hearts, lungs, skin going wrong but never the brain! There are definitely more neurodiverse people than everyone realises. It is a neurotypical world but for some reason, they don't like adjustments being made for us. Luckily most of my family and friends have been supportive and work thankfully!

You can actually see adhd on scans. Even though diagnosed mainly by symptoms. 7 Ways ADHD Can Be Seen in the Brain | Psychology Today United Kingdom
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/the-reality-gen-z/202112/7-ways-adhd-can-be-seen-in-the-brain%3famp

7 Ways ADHD Can Be Seen in the Brain

In the amygdala, the cerebellum, and elsewhere.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/the-reality-gen-z/202112/7-ways-adhd-can-be-seen-in-the-brain%3famp

Namechange666 · 08/09/2023 01:46

By the way, I aren't a victim of trauma. I also have other people in my family diagnosed. It's massively under diagnosed in women. Which is why the most newly diagnosed are women in their 30s like me.

The lockdown saw to that.

ChallengeAnneka · 08/09/2023 01:50

LordSalem · 08/09/2023 00:47

The vast majority of people today are not decent human beings. They're cruel, critical, judgemental, selfish, ignorant, rude, loud and cold. This applies to any given situation. The semantics or variables rarely matter or make a difference.
Imagine where we'll be in ten years when middle aged people are acting like this now without a second thought and we're already suffering from gangs of teenage and younger kids daily as well. And they find it funny, big and clever to intimidate and attack adults as well as other kids, and vandalise as they see fit because they are getting zero comeuppance in any way whatsoever.
This isn't civilisation, it's who can shout the loudest and get away with anything.
Historically it's fucking pathetic.
ND? No one gives a shit. NT no one gives a shit. You're a target for abuse either way.
People aren’t people, they're vicious bastards who jump at any excuse to discriminate against whatever they decide (on a whim) is different to them,

I wouldn’t say the vast majority but a significant minority of human beings are not decent. The veneer of humanity is slipping.

Namechange666 · 08/09/2023 01:51

I think you're massively over blaming yourself here.

Being ND can be hereditary. It's likely nothing you did could change it.

Gently, it sounds like maybe you were the traumatised one. Did you ever have counselling?

I think going with the medical professional is your best bet and help your children with reasonabe adjustments. Wish so much someone would have seen it in me when I was a child. I've never been moving to the same beat as other people....

Trez1510 · 08/09/2023 02:06

The article posted by @Namechange666 is interesting.

Hopefully those findings can be used to confirm diagnoses. That should put an end to the arguments/ambiguity over who has, and who hasn't, ADHD (or whatever it ends up being called).

Galiana · 08/09/2023 02:14

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 08/09/2023 00:34

I agree with this

That is interesting.

It's also probably right/correct.

But also it's a bloke on the old 'women be mental' trip.

I've seen three generations of ND women just get on. We've done ok. More than ok.

We are middle class and privileged women.

It's not easy to navigate though.

Hopinghonestly · 08/09/2023 02:47

Yes..i was misdiagnosed for PD and ED for years when it was Autism and ARFID, I did have Trauma which confused things..but people with Autism still feel Trauma, they can be more sensitive to it.

I was forced on medication which caused seizures, then another caused drug induced parkinsons. Since diagnosed been off meds for years but still struggle with hand tremors, Very annoyed about it all.

I get the..you dont look Autistic..(apparently people in my community assumption is your either mute or einstein)

Then there is the trickery of always doing wrong. Apparently you have to disclose your Autism as people tell me people need to know to understand, but at the same time get told if i do disclose it that it is annoying as it looks like i am using it to excuse myself..i cant "be" like it as people get uncomfortable and shouldnt have to deal with it. Totally confusing..

Masterofhappydays · 08/09/2023 02:56

ConnieTucker · 07/09/2023 23:04

I was on a PD last week run by a neuroscientist. He said there is a whole group of people who have been diagnosed with autism or adhd, and medicated. However, these people aren’t neurodiverse, they’re actually victims of complex trauma, where the ‘symptoms’ present similarly to autism/adhd

I had the opposite in summer. PD trauma training and I said that the symptoms were the same for ADHD, so how many children with trauma are being diagnosed incorrectly.

The amount of children with trauma is alarming.

Trauma is 'measurable'. Exposure to Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs) increases the risk of being trauma impacted. Eg, studies have shown brain scans of children who were neglected as babies and the differences in brain anatomy between a trauma-impacted child's brain and a healthy child's brain are astonishing. I have a vested interest in this as I was a Romanian orphanage adoptee in the late 80's which is where it was first discovered that neglected babies' brains grow/wife differently.

There is so, so, so much emerging research into trauma and misdiagnosis of autism/ADHD. It was not just this one neuroscientist who said all this, he was referring to other people's work and he is one of the highest regarded leaders in complex childhood trauma in the world. I am about to be a co-supervisor on a PhD research paper which is about adverse childhood experiences and the prevalence of complex trauma, so I have been reading so much over the past six months, though I am not an expert in the slightest. I am just responding here to answer the questions raised from my previous post (and to thank those who agreed).
There are many research papers on google scholar for those interested in looking at the links in children who are trauma-impacted being incorrectly diagnosed with ADHD or autism. These concerns were initially raised in 2006, so it is nothing new.^^

For those of you who do not like to read journal articles, there is a good article in the Atlantic by Rebecca Ruiz titled 'How childhood trauma could be mistaken for ADHD.

And yes, doctors do give ADHD medication to children under pressure from parents who are desperate for respite who present at the doctor's office listing off symptoms. One of the videos shown during the class was a USA GP who explained how schools were pressurising parents to get their children medicated as the schools could not cope with the behaviours. The parents were desperate and believed their child did have ADHD as the schools said so.

I was given an asthmatic inhaler as a child by a doctor because I had a cough. This was when I was in England. Literally everyone in my entire class had an inhaler. I do not for one second believe we were all asthmatic. I cannot see why you think it is not easy to be given medication that you do not need.

The really horrific thing is: children who are trauma impacted are being given medication to suppress any feelings they have so they are "more manageable" for the adults in their lives, thus therefore never addressing the trauma they are impacted with.

So yes, I do still believe that MANY children are diagnosed worldwide with autism or ADHD and then medicated, when all they needed was positive relationships to assist them with overcoming their trauma. The prevalence of trauma is astonishing, Approximately 92% of children have been exposed to at least one adverse childhood experience (ACEs) and 76% more than one ACE. The more exposure to ACEs, the higher the chance of being trauma-impacted. Being exposed to ACEs in early childhood can change the structure of the brain, thus the behaviours mimic behaviours presented in ADHD/Autism, thus the misdiagnosis. This is worldwide.

ChillysWaterBottle · 08/09/2023 03:11

YANBU. I don't know why it's allowed.