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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be worrying so much about DD 9 and in year 5 having a reading age of year 1

112 replies

Helena2000 · 06/09/2023 07:44

Hello everyone,
I'm feeling lost and am looking for some advice.
My Dd is 9, starts year 5 this week, and cannot read beyond early/start of year 1 level.
She spells every word phonetically, she cannot spell any word correctly, even CVC words.
She has no diagnosis of anything but school have placed her on their SEN register.
What this means in reality is that she gets taken out of class every day in to a group of 3 children and a TA to do different work to the rest of the class. The other 2 children have severe behavioural needs, which the TA struggles to manage whilst my DD sits there not receiving any attention or input because she is well behaved and compliant. She has told me she gets given colouring in to do whilst the TA tries to manage the behaviour of the other 2 children who argue, fight and disrupt the group she gets taken in to. I have fought and fought against this but school tell me its that or she sits in the main class.
DD tells me that when she does sit in the main class, she literally does not understand a single thing the teacher is teaching, but looks around to see the rest of the class can understand and get on with their set work, whilst she thinks to herself 'why can you all understand but I can't?'.
School did a dyslexia screen which they've told me shows that she is not dyslexic.
I'm at a loss as to why she has such a significant learning delay in reading, spelling and also maths.
She is incredibly intelligent. She's bright, alert, astute, is fully engaged with the world around her, has a brilliant sense of humour, is extremely empathetic, kind, gentle, so very thoughtful, notices so much of what's going on around her and is very in tune with other people's feelings and emotions. She adores art, dance, stories - her favourite thing in the world is to be read to (I read books and stories to her daily), animals, nature, playing, swimming, crafting. She's highly imaginative, loves playing with her sibling and her friends, she has friends who love her, her older sibling literally adores her, she is the chattiest little girl ever - she chats away to me non stop and her use of vocabulary is impressive and very varied, and her comprehension of what new words mean is really impressive. She's affectionate, loving, and just a little angel.
I'm describing her character to you because I'm trying to convey how bright she is as a person.
But tonight at bedtime she spent 2 hours crying her eyes out, her little face looked like she was in so much pain. She cried and cried about not being able to read. She told me her greatest wish is to be able to read, and said "I feel so stupid", "I feel so ashamed", "I'm so embarrassed about myself" all through terrible tears. She was clinging on to me, wrapped her whole body around mine, asking me to please help her. She said every day she misses her class lessons because she is taken out of class in to this little group of 3, that she gets no benefit from. She said co.ments from peers who ask her why she can't read are making her feel stupid and worthless.
I have spoken to the SENCO at school about her not benefiting from being in tbe 'focused learning ' group at school, and I was told very starkly there are no resources to give her any other input, i.e. not enough staff to offer any alternative, due to budget cuts.
I don't know how to help or what to do.
I've noticed that I can teach her a word, go over it in repetition, she'll appear to get it, and then within 20 seconds it's gone again and she can't recognise or remember the word.
Some words that I ask her to sound out, she guesses the word based on the 1st letter, or she says words that don't even contain the letters that are in the word I'm trying to teach her to read.
She is a gifted artist for her age, and often draws what she's seen that day, and she'll draw the most incredible detail in something that I can't believe she even noticed. So if she notices and remembers this much detail, how can she not notice the detail in a short word, or remember it through repetition?
School are adament it's not dyslexia because the school screening test came back as normal. I've had this conversation with them several times over.
Another thing is she cannot pronounce her words properly. Examples are that the W in 'Weather' is pronounced with her front teeth on her bottom lip. For Never she says 'Nether'. These are just 2 examples, but she mispronounces words hundreds of times a day. No amount of non-stop, endless correcting of her pronunciation by me ever, ever teaches her to remember how to say the word properly. In fact it's counter productive as it upsets her when I correct her, even though I do it in a softly spoken, swing and encouraging way. She just gets really frustrated.
I requested a SALT assessment 2 years ago via school and theyve told me she doesn't fit the referral criteria because she can talk fluently. Ive pushed this in meetings and been told the same again.
She has very poor short term memory, but excellent long term memory.
She struggles to follow instructions that have more than 2 steps involved, or with any instruction that's too complex.
She regularly says "What?" "Pardon?" "Can you say that again please?" But it's not to do with her hearing ad she can hear a pin drop in the distance! She's had her hearing tested and it's good. It's more as though she is asking the person to repeat themselves so that she can give herself more time to process what they've said before she responds.
she has had hearing tests and eye tests - hearing is very good. Needs glasses for reading but her prescription is borderline ok, not severe, optician said not crucial that she wears her glasses as she can manage fine without.
She needs a lot of time. Extra time to do things. Rushing her if we're late sends her in to a complete meltdown and she says she can't cope with hurrying up or rushing.
School teachers and SENCO don't even seem worried. Every school year is the same; unworried teachers. Every ADPR meeting is met with a teacher gushing with enthusiasm, telling me she's a pleasure to teach and that she's wonderful at drawing and popular with peers. I get inwardly really cross. I'm not there to hear about her drawing. And the teacher doesn't teach her. A TA does. Although she doesn't teach her either due to the disruption of tbe other 2. And I happen to know the TA outside of school and she is new to the role and has no experience in education whatsoever, comes from a totally unrelated background of work.
I've been told by my local authority she doesn't qualify for an Ed psych referral.
When I relay my concerns to her teacher, she smiles brightly and says "Don't worry! She doesn't need a diagnosis! It makes no difference at all to the way we teach her!" all delivered with a megawatt smile and an abrupt end of responding to my concerns.
Maybe they're fed up with me saying the same concerns every time we meet, I don't know.
She has started constantly apoligising for things she does not need to be apilogising for, and i think this is a sign that her self esteem is being affected, which I cant bear.
I have spent every day of her life telling her and showing her how much I love her. I continuously give her positive feedback, praise, encouragement, I listen to her, I try as hard as i can to give her a happy life filled with different experiences, but its not enough.
Can anyone advise me?
I need to know whats going on.
And my DD is begging me to know what's going on.
Phew, I haven't said all this to anyone in real life, except to DH who just says "She'll catch up" and dismisses my concerns.
Thanks for listening!

OP posts:
VestaTilley · 06/09/2023 07:54

Sorry OP, didn’t want to read and run- hopefully someone will be along soon who can give more advice. There are SEN boards on Mumsnet with loads of good posters - I’d try posting on there too.

I was interested at what you said about her forgetting spellings shortly after learning them; that leapt out at me. My sister wasn’t diagnosed as dyslexic until her twenties; it was missed all through school (she went on to university and is now a nurse after my DM had similar worries to you, so don’t lose hope), so I wonder if there’s something else they’re missing.

Keep trying. Ask to meet the school SENCO lead, the EdPsych, contact the county and ask who oversees children’s SEN provision. It may be undiagnosed learning difficulties.

Your poor little girl. I really hope you get an answer.

Patchworksack · 06/09/2023 07:55

I’ve seen so many threads today about children being completely failed by school due to lack of resources. Can you afford to get a private Ed psych assessment done to understand what the issues are? The current arrangement is clearly not meeting her needs but school lack funding to do something different. I’d also speak to the local version of SENDIASS (listed under local offer on council website) who can help you with red tape of getting the right help.

3WildOnes · 06/09/2023 07:56

Can you afford to pay privately for an ed psych assessment?

Bimblesalong · 06/09/2023 07:57

Short answer as dashing out to assess someone for dyslexia. I see a lot of children who have had negative screens but who are in fact dyslexic. Ask for a repeat of the screen or whether a referral to the school ep is possible (they’re like hen’s teeth!). You can have a specialist teacher assessment for dyslexia which is cheaper than an EP. Search on the PATOSS website for an assessment practitioner.

Peekingovertheparapet · 06/09/2023 08:00

Oh my heart. I hear you.

I have a child going into year 3 with similar problems, although not yet as pronounced. I am terrified that he is going to end up where your little girl is, and I’m so sorry you are going through this.

the in-school dyslexia screen is not diagnostic, she may well have dyslexia, but diagnosis has to be self funded (thanks government) and is pricey. If you can afford it I would do it; we will do it for our child when the time is right.

I would also want to consider other types of neurodivergence, especially things like ADHD, which can have functional hearing issues as part of them, eg she can hear, her ears work, but the way her brain processes the sound doesn’t. This also happens to people with autism, but there is a lot of crossover.

ultimately, the school is failing your child, and unless you can get formal diagnosis or even an EHCP (which if she really is unable to access her learning might be possible), you’re unlikely to get the support she needs. As it is, she may well be ‘borrowing’ another child’s funded support, which does happen, but it’s hard to say.

Lilolilibet · 06/09/2023 08:01

She's obviously dyslexic.

Can you afford to pay for private interventions and an assessment?

I would also consider if she really needs to be at school as she needs lots of intensive help that you could deliver better at home while protecting her mental health.

I have been there. Huge sympathy. We turned it around after a couple of years of really hard work.

AnObserverInThisDarkWorld · 06/09/2023 08:01

Is there a reason you've posted this again OP?

It sounds like she does have some needs that aren't being met, can you try moving schools?

Lilolilibet · 06/09/2023 08:02

Also, your husband's wrong. She won't magically catch up. But there is still a great life ahead.

MyEyesMyThighs · 06/09/2023 08:03

She needs a dyslexia screen that focuses on working memory rather than letter placement. She is likely to learn in a different way than you did and hopefully, if it is working memory related, you'll be able to see what ways might work.

My DD had a classmate whose dyslexia affected them as poor working memory and they are catching up with the help of technology and support.

Good luck, she's lucky to have you

Peekingovertheparapet · 06/09/2023 08:03

@AnObserverInThisDarkWorld i haven’t seen a previous post but presumably it’s because these things always feel so enormous at the start of a new school year, especially if you’re hoping things might be different

Sirzy · 06/09/2023 08:03

You need to apply for an ehcp needs assessment yourself.

maddening · 06/09/2023 08:06

My worry is whether a TA is sufficiently capable of addressing her needs as well as just being stuffed with dc with behavioural issues - definitely take that further - they are failing your dc.

If you can I would also look at a tutor for her.

Goldencup · 06/09/2023 08:07

Patchworksack · 06/09/2023 07:55

I’ve seen so many threads today about children being completely failed by school due to lack of resources. Can you afford to get a private Ed psych assessment done to understand what the issues are? The current arrangement is clearly not meeting her needs but school lack funding to do something different. I’d also speak to the local version of SENDIASS (listed under local offer on council website) who can help you with red tape of getting the right help.

Just adding my voice, get a private assesment if you can possibly afford it. Unfortunately the state school system just doesn't have the resources.

Where abouts in the UK are you ?

Pineapplestropical · 06/09/2023 08:07

Do a parental request for an EHCP assessment from your local authority. Your school will be forced to then put in the support of it gets agreed . Get a private EP if you can.

Geneticsbunny · 06/09/2023 08:08

She sounds so similar to my son. He sits in class and gets on with his own thing but can't read and doesn't join in with the classwork. He is also y5.

He does have dyslexia though and we also think he is slower than normal to process verbal information . He is also on the waiting list for an assessment for inattentive ADHD which is think sounds very similar to your daughter. I have started applying for an ehcp for him so that he can get extra help now and especially once he gets to secondary school.

We also do nessy regularly which has helped. It is an online learning to read program which uses lots of visual prompts to help learning to read and games and my son has found really useful.

I would ask the school about an ehcp (if you are in England) and have a look at nessy. Also keep telling your daughter how brilliant she is and that lots of famous successful people have brains that are a bit different, like hers is, like famous inventors and artists and that she is very special because she can think about things in a different way that other people do.

bobby81 · 06/09/2023 08:08

Hi OP, I didn't have time to read the the whole thread but wanted to send a quick reply. My DD sounds just like yours although she is 12 now & just going into year 8. The difference being that her primary school were absolutely amazing & really supportive. She had an Ed psychologist assessment through primary school which helped her teachers to support her in the appropriate way (I would advise you pay privately for this if school can't provide it & you can afford it.) Interestingly my DD wasn't diagnosed as dyslexic at primary school (despite being tested) but last year was re tested at secondary school & has been diagnosed as mildly dyslexic now. I believe it can be difficult to diagnose in young children but it's worth retesting if you think it's necessary. Her primary school was tiny (approx 70 kids in the whole school) and very well run with excellent staff who really helped her. In your position I would be looking at other schools if at all possible, it could make a big difference. My DD is now in a large secondary school which I was worried about but I have built up a relationship with the pastoral & SEN departments and they are great. Keep pushing for help is my advice. Good luck. (Sorry if this post is a little rambling, not got much time!)

AnObserverInThisDarkWorld · 06/09/2023 08:09

Peekingovertheparapet · 06/09/2023 08:03

@AnObserverInThisDarkWorld i haven’t seen a previous post but presumably it’s because these things always feel so enormous at the start of a new school year, especially if you’re hoping things might be different

It was posted yesterday
They were even one under the other on the board just

CurlewKate · 06/09/2023 08:11

I don't know enough to be helpful-except to say that I don't think you need to worry about the pronunciation thing at least. Lots of people have slight speech impediments-I said th as s for years. And even now there are a few words I have to stop and take a run up at. Thistle trips me every time.

I second getting an EP assessment if you can. And a meeting with the Head at school. Write a letter saying what you have said here but in bullet point form, trying to keep it short and factual. Take someone with you-it's easy to miss things or get distracted. I do hope things work out for you.

Notonthestairs · 06/09/2023 08:12

We got a private Educational Psychologist-report first and then applied for an EHCP.

My DD has memory retrieval issues and slow processing (amongst lots of other issues).
The psychologist likened it to having a full filing cabinet but struggling to locate the right information. Certain activities takes a bit longer but with the right style of teaching lots can be achieved.

Teddybear120 · 06/09/2023 08:13

Agree with others above. If you can please try and get her reassessed for dyslexia. I was very similar to what you describe. I struggled with learning to read, forgot spellings as soon as I learnt them. School told my parents my screen was negative. I was very lucky in that my parents could afford to pursue a private assessment and I was found to have dyslexia and dyspraxia. I had a lot of support, a change of schools and I did catch up in the end and actually surpassed expectations. I don’t have any advice as to how to get assessments done by school if you can’t pursue private but please trust your gut and keep pushing.

Stella123456 · 06/09/2023 08:13

The speech issues sound like verbal dyspraxia.
The other issues dyslexia.
The school saying she is not dyslexic is irrelevant. She clearly is.
I would go private for an assessment regarding these issues specifically.
And would a change of school be beneficial?
Her issues can be helped massively with therapy and/or the use of technology. Some very intelligent and influential people are severely dyslexic. It doesn’t have to hold her back in every area and she needs to be in class learning otherwise there’s no point going to school.

Hermanfromguesswho · 06/09/2023 08:14

If you can scrape together the money then I would get her a private educational psychologist assessment. Or at the very least a dyslexia assessment. Then with that in hand to highlight all her needs I’d apply for an EHCP. The school will tell you that she won’t get one and it’s pointless applying but apply anyway. Tell the school that you know it won’t come through any time soon (it won’t, it’ll take a good year to work through the process) but that you are applying to get things in place for when she’s at high school. Sorry to be cynical but school are more likely to be honest on their forms and reports and give the full picture of how much support she needs if they know that they aren’t going to be the ones that have to provide (and fund) it!
For now can you push for things like a laptop rather than her writing. For guided reading with texts - if her comprehension is ok and her vocabulary is good then she could manage in class with the text on a laptop. She could listen to it through headphones via a program called immersive reader (it highlights the word as it reads it out loud to you) and then answer the questions either on the laptop (it’ll help correct her spelling) or via dictation.
A program called Nessie that is a reading game for dyslexic students (or those with similar needs) is not too expensive to buy into as a parent. If she does 20 minutes, 3 times a week that’ll help. Other programs suitable for her age and reading abilities that you could ask school to look into are Beat dyslexia and Toe by Toe.
She sounds an amazing little girl. Keep reading to her lots and celebrating and doing the things she is good at to keep her self esteem up.
Good luck 😊

Pottedpalm · 06/09/2023 08:19

I would do everything possible ( sell the car, re-mortgage?) to get a proper assessment done privately as soon as possible. Sadly, in my opinion, this is your only option. No time to waste.

AbbeyGailsParty · 06/09/2023 08:19

ime even if you get a private assessment the school will drag their heels to recognise it and provide the correct support. Exactly what has happened with my dgc, who they’ll manage to move onto secondary without having put in any extra help.
I would search out a full SEN assessment to rule out ( or in) other conditions such as ADHD, ADD.
Also a private tutor without an assessment might help. A good one will work on small steps initially to boost your dd self esteem and confidence. This is a really important step.

You could always contact your MP regarding the schools failures but who knows if they’ll be any use. I’m sorry your poor daughter has been failed by her school.

BadHairBae · 06/09/2023 08:20

Didn't want to read and run.

This sounds so hard for you both. I really hope that she receives some better care at school, she absolutely deserves that.

I haven't got any experience with this, as DS is only 8mo. Just wanted to add, one of the most successful people I know suffered with dyslexia at school and they absolutely smashed it in their exams and professional life. They worked so hard for it and I found them very inspiring.

Please update if you get another assessment, OP. X