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To be worrying so much about DD 9 and in year 5 having a reading age of year 1

112 replies

Helena2000 · 06/09/2023 07:44

Hello everyone,
I'm feeling lost and am looking for some advice.
My Dd is 9, starts year 5 this week, and cannot read beyond early/start of year 1 level.
She spells every word phonetically, she cannot spell any word correctly, even CVC words.
She has no diagnosis of anything but school have placed her on their SEN register.
What this means in reality is that she gets taken out of class every day in to a group of 3 children and a TA to do different work to the rest of the class. The other 2 children have severe behavioural needs, which the TA struggles to manage whilst my DD sits there not receiving any attention or input because she is well behaved and compliant. She has told me she gets given colouring in to do whilst the TA tries to manage the behaviour of the other 2 children who argue, fight and disrupt the group she gets taken in to. I have fought and fought against this but school tell me its that or she sits in the main class.
DD tells me that when she does sit in the main class, she literally does not understand a single thing the teacher is teaching, but looks around to see the rest of the class can understand and get on with their set work, whilst she thinks to herself 'why can you all understand but I can't?'.
School did a dyslexia screen which they've told me shows that she is not dyslexic.
I'm at a loss as to why she has such a significant learning delay in reading, spelling and also maths.
She is incredibly intelligent. She's bright, alert, astute, is fully engaged with the world around her, has a brilliant sense of humour, is extremely empathetic, kind, gentle, so very thoughtful, notices so much of what's going on around her and is very in tune with other people's feelings and emotions. She adores art, dance, stories - her favourite thing in the world is to be read to (I read books and stories to her daily), animals, nature, playing, swimming, crafting. She's highly imaginative, loves playing with her sibling and her friends, she has friends who love her, her older sibling literally adores her, she is the chattiest little girl ever - she chats away to me non stop and her use of vocabulary is impressive and very varied, and her comprehension of what new words mean is really impressive. She's affectionate, loving, and just a little angel.
I'm describing her character to you because I'm trying to convey how bright she is as a person.
But tonight at bedtime she spent 2 hours crying her eyes out, her little face looked like she was in so much pain. She cried and cried about not being able to read. She told me her greatest wish is to be able to read, and said "I feel so stupid", "I feel so ashamed", "I'm so embarrassed about myself" all through terrible tears. She was clinging on to me, wrapped her whole body around mine, asking me to please help her. She said every day she misses her class lessons because she is taken out of class in to this little group of 3, that she gets no benefit from. She said co.ments from peers who ask her why she can't read are making her feel stupid and worthless.
I have spoken to the SENCO at school about her not benefiting from being in tbe 'focused learning ' group at school, and I was told very starkly there are no resources to give her any other input, i.e. not enough staff to offer any alternative, due to budget cuts.
I don't know how to help or what to do.
I've noticed that I can teach her a word, go over it in repetition, she'll appear to get it, and then within 20 seconds it's gone again and she can't recognise or remember the word.
Some words that I ask her to sound out, she guesses the word based on the 1st letter, or she says words that don't even contain the letters that are in the word I'm trying to teach her to read.
She is a gifted artist for her age, and often draws what she's seen that day, and she'll draw the most incredible detail in something that I can't believe she even noticed. So if she notices and remembers this much detail, how can she not notice the detail in a short word, or remember it through repetition?
School are adament it's not dyslexia because the school screening test came back as normal. I've had this conversation with them several times over.
Another thing is she cannot pronounce her words properly. Examples are that the W in 'Weather' is pronounced with her front teeth on her bottom lip. For Never she says 'Nether'. These are just 2 examples, but she mispronounces words hundreds of times a day. No amount of non-stop, endless correcting of her pronunciation by me ever, ever teaches her to remember how to say the word properly. In fact it's counter productive as it upsets her when I correct her, even though I do it in a softly spoken, swing and encouraging way. She just gets really frustrated.
I requested a SALT assessment 2 years ago via school and theyve told me she doesn't fit the referral criteria because she can talk fluently. Ive pushed this in meetings and been told the same again.
She has very poor short term memory, but excellent long term memory.
She struggles to follow instructions that have more than 2 steps involved, or with any instruction that's too complex.
She regularly says "What?" "Pardon?" "Can you say that again please?" But it's not to do with her hearing ad she can hear a pin drop in the distance! She's had her hearing tested and it's good. It's more as though she is asking the person to repeat themselves so that she can give herself more time to process what they've said before she responds.
she has had hearing tests and eye tests - hearing is very good. Needs glasses for reading but her prescription is borderline ok, not severe, optician said not crucial that she wears her glasses as she can manage fine without.
She needs a lot of time. Extra time to do things. Rushing her if we're late sends her in to a complete meltdown and she says she can't cope with hurrying up or rushing.
School teachers and SENCO don't even seem worried. Every school year is the same; unworried teachers. Every ADPR meeting is met with a teacher gushing with enthusiasm, telling me she's a pleasure to teach and that she's wonderful at drawing and popular with peers. I get inwardly really cross. I'm not there to hear about her drawing. And the teacher doesn't teach her. A TA does. Although she doesn't teach her either due to the disruption of tbe other 2. And I happen to know the TA outside of school and she is new to the role and has no experience in education whatsoever, comes from a totally unrelated background of work.
I've been told by my local authority she doesn't qualify for an Ed psych referral.
When I relay my concerns to her teacher, she smiles brightly and says "Don't worry! She doesn't need a diagnosis! It makes no difference at all to the way we teach her!" all delivered with a megawatt smile and an abrupt end of responding to my concerns.
Maybe they're fed up with me saying the same concerns every time we meet, I don't know.
She has started constantly apoligising for things she does not need to be apilogising for, and i think this is a sign that her self esteem is being affected, which I cant bear.
I have spent every day of her life telling her and showing her how much I love her. I continuously give her positive feedback, praise, encouragement, I listen to her, I try as hard as i can to give her a happy life filled with different experiences, but its not enough.
Can anyone advise me?
I need to know whats going on.
And my DD is begging me to know what's going on.
Phew, I haven't said all this to anyone in real life, except to DH who just says "She'll catch up" and dismisses my concerns.
Thanks for listening!

OP posts:
Andbreatheee · 06/09/2023 18:02

Helena2000 · 06/09/2023 17:41

When people are saying get an Ed Psych, is that an Educational Psychiatrist or an Educational Psychologist??
I don't even know the difference between the two!!
I'm googling like mad in my area (SE) and am finding nothing!

Educational psychologist :)

DrRuthGalloway · 06/09/2023 18:09

She isn't "obviously dyslexic". I mean, she obviously has reading issues that are significant, but without a proper Ed psych assessment none of us can say what is the root cause of those difficulties.

Could be developmental language disorder, especially if she can't follow teacher talk. Could be general learning disabilities if she doesn't get the concepts being taught (even to get them then forget them). Could be severe working memory issues. Could also be dyslexia. It is important to note that year 5 were a year group that missed early consolidation of phonics in year 1 when lockdowns happened. Any vulnerabilities in that respect and those children are disproportionately affected, especially if they have had ineffective teaching since.

OP I would ring your local authority ed psych service yourself and describe the issues, and ask why she can't be prioritised and if they do use criteria. Tbh it's more likely that the school is choosing to prioritise children whose behaviour causes them a problem and it's nothing to do with who the ed psychs will see.

If they really can't see her: either request an ehcp from the local authority, or source your own EP. She urgently needs such an assessment to identify what is going wrong for her. Stress that it is impacting her mental well-being now.

DrRuthGalloway · 06/09/2023 18:11

OP I am an ed psych.

Don't look for a dyslexia assessment. It will be cheaper, but narrower. She needs approaching with an open mind and a full cognitive and contextual assessment. It might not just be dyslexia.

TheYear2000 · 06/09/2023 18:15

Your daughter sounds lovely and I'm so sad to read about her situation at school. I'm glad you're going to find an educational psychologist.

I didn't have the same experiences as her exactly as reading was fine, but I struggled with listening and instructions at school and was then diagnosed with a specific learning disability to do with auditory processing. It meant I was allowed extra time in exams, given a voice recorder and a laptop etc. I remember feeling relieved that I wasn't just stupid for finding listening difficult- my brain just work's differently to other people's! (Like your DD, I'm creative!)
I'm sure the Ed Psych will be able to pinpoint this as well as any other issues and advise on how to proceed.

Good luck with it

WorldDobbleChampion · 06/09/2023 18:31

It definitely sounds as if there is neurodivergence. I would look for a full screening to explore all possibilities. For example i have ADHD and many of the things you describe were my experience, but there are lots of crossovers/similarities and all should be considered. I was well behaved and quiet in class but still had raging combined type ADHD. Certainly the more pressure I found myself under the less I could deal with it and take anything in. Even as an adult I struggle hugely grasping the basics, but once I have got them the advanced stuff comes very easily.

In the meantime I would focus very strongly on building your daughters self esteem. Enjoy reading for fun and encourage things she is good at. Remove all pressure off her. Maybe try a different out of school activity you think would play to her strengths to give her a fresh focus.

Bless her and you it is so hard.

Outonaschoolnight · 06/09/2023 18:42

This must be so upsetting for her. From a teacher’s perspective, it sounds like the school is fobbing you off. Being 4 years behind in reading with a very poor working memory definitely warrants an EP referral. The teacher is also incorrect in that it won’t change the way you teach her - the EP will give specific and tailored strategies in order to help her learn. The school’s response just isn’t good enough.

timetochangethering · 06/09/2023 18:57

Helena2000 · 06/09/2023 17:41

When people are saying get an Ed Psych, is that an Educational Psychiatrist or an Educational Psychologist??
I don't even know the difference between the two!!
I'm googling like mad in my area (SE) and am finding nothing!

https://helenarkell.org.uk/

Helen Arkell

The team at Helen Arkell provide specialist support, advice and information to people with dyslexia, and parents, teachers and employers. Find out more about our resources, courses and other projects here.

https://helenarkell.org.uk

skelter83 · 06/09/2023 19:02

Pineapplestropical · 06/09/2023 08:07

Do a parental request for an EHCP assessment from your local authority. Your school will be forced to then put in the support of it gets agreed . Get a private EP if you can.

Do this as quickly as you possibly can. She sounds like she needs Ed Psych assessment and an EHCP before starting high school.

Scubanicki · 06/09/2023 19:06

My daughter struggled through primary, was told she had difficulty concentrating in year 2, was not overly worried. Finally was asked ahead of Sat's to get a private dyslexia assessment. It showed she has working memory issues and suspected dyscalculia (not confirmed but that was a separate £500 assessment!!) She is getting on much better at secondary school where the senco department is much bigger. May get her assessed again ahead of gcse to ensure she gets extra time for exams. Would go for a private assessment if you can.

Chiaseedling · 06/09/2023 19:08

Forget the school assessments, she needs to be assessed privately by an Ed Psych. And/or dyslexia specialist. Sounds like she has processing difficulties of some sort. i do know of someone but it’s outing so will PM you the deets.

towriteyoumustlive · 06/09/2023 19:12

I'd be looking for another school in the area that will offer her the correct support.

The school she is at are clearly not supporting her needs. There is clearly something amiss and the school are fobbing you off.

The right school can make a HUGE difference!!

In the mean time, make sure you're listening to her read every day and just keep going with the praise and encouragement.

Have you tried following along a book with an audio track. Or get two books so you read and she follows with her own copy?

RosaGallica · 06/09/2023 19:29

School is definitely fobbing you off. Unfortunately it happens too often. Teachers are not all great, they often - to be perfectly honest - do not care about the individual child’s future as long as they get a reasonably easy day herding their 30 other cats around. You know this yourself as she is sat in a group with a TA doing colouring. You need that EHCP and you can launch referrals yourself. Get in touch with a local sendiass too.

Lilolilibet · 06/09/2023 19:34

One of the most helpful things you can do is sit with her and work with the words together. When I was told that, I was sure I wouldn't know what to do. Your dd sounds so like mine. We sat for hours every night, playing word bingo and looking at the patterns. I also read to her.

She turned out to be extremely bright and now sits in the top sets, something I would never have imagined. She gets extra time and help and works extra hard but she's a success story and your dd can be too. Just know that the most important thing you can do is just be there with her, learning words and talking about them, trying different things and demonstrating patience and commitment.

Lilolilibet · 06/09/2023 19:36

The school was absolutely rubbish throughout by the way. We used a wonderful specialist online tutor for the clever bits and guidance and yes, we are broke now :) But it's your dd's whole future which is priceless.

Pigriver · 06/09/2023 19:40

Sendco here and I would recommend a dyslexia assessment. Poor recall and processing speeds are co-morbid with dyslexia. As is dyscalculia.

So you have an iPad? Use the speech to text software in notes for her to record her sentences. Similarly use a text/speech app to read out text.

Allow her to listen to audiobooks to develop her language and access books similar to her friends. Borrowbox is free through the library.

At home but Toe by Toe and do 10 mins daily.

In our LA we only get funding for learning if a child has a 50% delay which at age 9 would be 4.5 or reception level. The exception to this is if a child has dyslexia. I would definitely pull her out if the groups and speak to staff about using tech as above to support access to learning.

RandomMess · 06/09/2023 19:43

I so sorry you and your DD have been failed. I said throughout school one of my DC had an issue. I paid for a private SPLD assessment. Turns out she is dyspraxic.

Best £600 I spent!

worriedatwork123 · 06/09/2023 19:43

my eldest sounds similar but without the speech issue. She's bright, creative, empathic, sociable and always engaged brilliantly with adults and children, huge vocabulary fro a young age

but she couldn't read well at all and same with numbers .... didn't get phonics at all. Also couldn't do even a basic jigsaw puzzle

school screened and said not dyslexic

we then got lucky as a new deputy head with a masters in dyslexia started and picked it up straight away. Did some additional screening and she was borderline for some processing issues BUT her visual processing was extremely poor. So - with that knowledge we paid a private t specialist tutor who taught her to read and do basic maths. If u have any spare money i'd try and feet a private assessment

my daughter is 21 now and flourishing in a creative career - she's still bright, chatty and engaging

EffortlessDesmond · 06/09/2023 19:53

Everyone here is speaking truely to you. Your DD's situation is unique, but getting a personal report and analysis of what your next steps might be is vital. A good life is possible, but the footings need to be established soon, before the nasty individuals start dissing her in secondary.

Thelonelygiraffe · 06/09/2023 19:54

Get her a private test for dyslexia.
And get her tested for processing time - sounds like that's a problem.

She sounds wonderful, but school are seriously failing her.

Thelonelygiraffe · 06/09/2023 19:56

And the school should be putting in her a separate group to help HER, not a group that doesn't help her at all.

HeyThereDelilah1 · 06/09/2023 19:57

She sounds like me as a child, I was diagnosed with dyspraxia aged 9. I found primary very difficult but ironically work as a senior editor now and am a high earner, those other skills you describe are the true measurements of intelligence and I’m convinced this will be the hardest period for your daughter, our education system is a factory and needs to change. You can’t teach emotional intelligence, creativity etc, the rest needs to be taught to her in a way she understands but it will come to her. My special needs teacher described it to me as the equivalent of me talking French, I needed to be taught in French, but when I was I ended up overtaking my classmates who I once so envied fairly significantly - one of a handful from my primary to make it to a well regarded university.

Daysafter · 06/09/2023 19:59

Oh so sorry to hear this. She sounds like my daughter who is now 27. She is dyslexic and dyspraxic. She still mispronounces words that are likened to malapropisms. Thankfully there is spellcheck which is her best friend. There's been a lot of great advice here, so wishing your daughter a happy future.

Muststopeating · 06/09/2023 20:01

I have no advice but your post simultaneously broke my heart and warmed it.

Your daughter is very very lucky to have you, you very clearly have her back and are fighting every possible corner for her. She will remember that!

She sounds like a wonderful little girl who will thrive one way or another but of course everything will be easier for her if she can read.

I'm sorry the school system is failing her so spectacularly.

My only thought was could a yoto perhaps help with prononciation? My children are currently listening to Enid Blyton on loop. I just wondered if listening to extra stories (as with the best will in the world you can't read to her constantly) could help? I have no experience in this though so sorry if a duff idea.

Muststopeating · 06/09/2023 20:02

Oh and could the TA at least give her something like Teach Your Monster to Read to play on a tablet instead of bloody colouring! Something that she can at least attempt to crack on with on her own instead?