To want to be appointed at top of pay band

[MsFrost]

I've been offered a new job in higher education and I want to go in at the top of the band becuase my current salary is above it.

AIBU to negotiate this? Would it make a bad impression to push for them to match my current salary, even though it means starting right at the top of the pay band?

Their policy is to start people at the bottom of the band.

I negotiated salary when I joined the NHS as a band 7 about 7 years ago. Had never worked for NHS before and initially was told it would be bottom of the scale, however when I declined and said I wanted it to match my salary in my LA role (I was going to be working for both organisations part time), they agreed and paid me appropriately.

Always ask. I wouldn't take a pay cut if the new role was equivalent and the only reason was that you hadn't worked for that particular organisation before.

I think you have quite a skewed idea of things. I’ve worked in public and private sector for over thirty years and have never experienced anyone who grumbles when they get to the top of the payscale. If they want to be paid more and progress they apply for a different role. It’s the job which is graded up to a certain pay, not the person and that’s the whole work planning model.

The budget is planned around a model of staffing which has bandings attached. If everyone starts paying discretionary extra when there is no way of generating extra income (because it’s not a business) that money has to come from somewhere which will ultimately be losing other posts or other cost cutting which directly impacts on patient care or the education of students.

Whoever said about grumbling when they make it to the top of the pay scale? That's not what I was saying at all.

I meant grumbling about pay generally, and about the advertised pay scale actually being a lie.

In my whole time in the civil service I never knew of anyone moving from wherever they were on the pay scale before the pay freeze hit, or from the bottom of it if they started in their role after the pay freeze. That's the point.

So are you saying that people stay on the spine point that they start on? That’s not how it works in universities or the NHS, you automatically move up the pay scale until you reach the top. Usually, with negotiation, it is possible to start at a grade commensurate with your experience within that pay band.

You said in your original post ‘if they don’t increase your salary in a reasonable manner each year (I.e because you are at the top of the pay scale) then leave’ which I have interpreted as you expecting that salaries should increase beyond the top of the pay scale. Unless there is some of this sentence missing and you meant to say ‘unless there is a good reason that they don’t increase….’ In which case I agree. But this just doesn’t happen in public services that I’ve worked in.

In the civil service you do not move up the scale due to the pay freeze which has been in place since 2011. It's a huge bone of contention. When I pointed out to my boss that I was being paid less than my male colleague doing exactly the same job and could bring an equal pay claim, he said, "Yes, I know you are and it's not fair or right, but someone already tried that and was told that it wasn't sex discrimination because the reason for the difference wasn't that their colleague was male but that there are huge, huge problems with the entire pay system and the tribunal had to fudge the result because finding in favour of the claimant would have opened up a massive can of worms and resulted in the civil service having to completely overhaul their system and find a magic money tree to equalise all the people who were being underpaid compared to others doing the same job."

My point about the top of the pay scale is that, as the OP says, it's not an argument for appointing someone below the top of the pay scale if they deserve to be at the top already so they have something to aim for. If the people at the top of the pay scale are getting disillusioned because they have no incentive to work harder then maybe you need to re-evaluate your pay scale. But they never will. There's a magic money tree for Arlene Foster and for Test and Trace, but never for this.

The days of automatically moving up a spinal column point in local government (within your grade boundary) are also possibly nearing an end, at least in some places. Mine has scrapped automatic rises and they are now dependent on your manager deciding whether you’ve performed adequately.

Sounds like things work very differently which is interesting as you’d be forgiven for thinking that they were the same.

I don’t agree that if you’re at the top of the scale you become disillusioned but maybe it’s different again in different settings. In the settings I’ve worked in, it’s understood and accepted that it’s the job not the person that’s graded and if you want more money you need to apply for another job, many people just stay where they are though because the pay is only part of the reason that they’re doing the job (or certainly that was how it used to be, younger people tend to be more ambitious and want to move up through the ranks more quickly - this is probably me just being an old fart)

Well the other problem with where I was in central government is that not only did you start at the bottom of the pay grade and not move off it (I got less than inflation pay rises each year and they raised the bottom of the pay scale slightly each year so after four years of service I was earning £50 per year more than the bottom of the pay scale), you weren't considered for promotion until you'd done two roles at the same pay grade, each for 3-4 years. So that's 6-8 years on the same salary (minimum) before you could even apply for a promotion. It was nuts. So glad I got out.

Well you can always ask. They can either renegotiate or not. They can always go to their second preference candidate.

If the terms and conditions don't suit you then walk away.

I'm a senior social worker but some of the moves took place when I was a social worker.

I work in HE (not academic though) and came in at top of the pay band due to matching previous salary. They didn't take much persuading. However, in my particular job area the job market is definitely short of candidates so employers are definitely willing to negotiate. I don't know how things are in your particular work area but it is definitely reasonable to ask them to match your current salary.

When I see job ads with a salary range like that I always hold out for the top of the range if offered. My reasoning is that they view the job role as meriting that amount and, as they have offered it to me they think I can carry out the role. I've never been refused.

In the end, it depends on how much they really really really want you.

Just to update on this - they have matched my current salary :)

Thanks to everyone who encouraged me. Interesting to see the split of people who thought I should go for it and others who thought I should accept lower.

They didn't even put up any resistance in the second conversation, they just agreed. It was easy!

Well done OP!

Congrats OP!

Congratulations! I'm glad you held out for a bit more. 🌹

Ah great update! Congratulations @MsFrost 🎉

Fantastic OP, well done! Glad to hear they recognise your worth.

That's great news, congratulations!

I came on here to tell you to definitely push for the top of the scale. I’ve done it after years of being underpaid and succeeded. I’m honestly quite surprised there are so many who advised against it.

Well done, OP!