To want to be appointed at top of pay band

[MsFrost]

I've been offered a new job in higher education and I want to go in at the top of the band becuase my current salary is above it.

AIBU to negotiate this? Would it make a bad impression to push for them to match my current salary, even though it means starting right at the top of the pay band?

Their policy is to start people at the bottom of the band.

Pay bands are bullshit excuses to pay people less. Tell them what you want and take nothing less.

Then if they don’t increase your salary in a reasonable manner each year (I.e. because you are already at the top of the band) then leave.

I work in HE, my current institute will start you at your current salary, so higher up on the band if you argue it. My previous one wouldn’t

This is a point of view I struggle to understand to be honest.

If I have say 10 years' experience, albeit in a different workplace, but a similar/ relevant type of work, then I'd expect that to be recognised and appreciated.

(This is the case here - I have years of relevant experience gained in another setting).

I would understand if my background was in it's a completely different type of work, but it's not. I'm not starting afresh here. I'm just transferring to a HE setting as opposed to my previous setting.

Experience and knowledge should be recognised, even if it was gained outside of your specific workplace.

I’ve literally just done this in the higher education sector.

if they were advertising with a range stating £60-£70k, but only intending to pay £60k, that's unreasonable - they should have advertised it at £60k - YANBU to say you're prepared to drop to £70k, but not £60k

Equally, you applied for the role knowing the highest salary was £70k - if you weren't interested at that rate because lower than you're getting now, so asking for more than £70k is unressonable.

Absolutely have the discussion at the interview. You'll need to make it clear you can't accept less than your current salary, who moves job for less unless there is a really specific reason for doing so? Recognise your worth and look elsewhere if they won't offer you more. An interview is a two way process, don't be passive.

I now am transparent at the start of any recruitment journey of my salary and benefits expectations.

depends how much you need or want this job- if you could walk away then negotiate hard and walk if you don’t get. If not then explain the reason for the request and be ready to compromise - start bottom with agreement to review quarterly

I think all but one of my last ten hires have started mid-band or higher and I have always been able to negotiate up the salary band with jobs myself. It's easier to make the case based on current salary but I've done it without.

There is an interesting piece of research that attributes at least part of the gender pay gap to women being afraid to negotiate better pay and since I read that I have always pushed myself to do this.

All they can do is say no. Recruiting is a total pain at the moment and it's much better to hang onto a good candidate.

You can’t do that in this sector. The pay bands are national, just like NHS and other public sector. They are bargained collectively annually and set in stone.

There’s a London weighting but that’s it. If you are a Senior Lecturer in the South East you get paid the same in the North West. There is no negotiating outside of the pay band.

You can of course negotiate and refuse if it doesn't suit. I did it for a move (different sector) where I really needed to move and the hiring company had lots of roles. For various reasons it was important in the short term, but in the longer term I progressed very little until I obtained a promotion.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to negotiate outside of the payband.

If, for example, the pay band is £31-36K, I mean I'm asking for 36K (which is lower than my current salary but I'm prepared to accept - there are various reasons I want this job).

In the advert it said that they usually appoint at the bottom of the band but that current salary and experience can be taken into account.

But on the phone, the manager seemed a bit put out about me asking not to start on the bottom.

Well you can try, but I'd expect a refusal. Budgets are too tight to be appointing at higher points and we're having to fight to appoint anyone atm. It depends whether the full package (pension, leave, flexi...) are worth the pay cut to you. If not, you need to apply for the next band up to achieve the wage you want

Depends a bit on the role in my experience - for research contracts, it depends if the grant funding can accommodate it. If yes then it’s usually possible to match salary. For professional services roles it’s less common, but you can ask. Permanent lecturer type posts - usually open to negotiation within the pay band to at least match.

Why are you stating this so confidently when others on this thread are saying they have appointed / been appointed at a higher starting salary?

Personally I had a job offer in the higher education sector just over a month ago and they offered me the top of the band due to previous experience. So yes it definitely is possible.

My friend has just managed this in HE.

I know others who have done across the PS.

When I applied for my last postdoc they wanted to appoint me on the same spine point as someone fresh out of their PhD, despite advertising a salary range in the job advert and despite me having 6 years' directly relevant post-PhD experience. I pushed back and the PI made a case for a higher spine point based on my experience, which was granted and I was appointed one point below the top of the band. It meant I lost a year's increment compared with if I'd not moved institutions, but I decided I could accept that.

I got appointed at the top of my pay band in the NHS no problem when I started. I just said I was unable to move for less than what I was currently on in a different sector.

Absolutely try and negotiate this, OP.

On Dadsnet I very much doubt you would see loads of men telling you it won't happen and it's pointless to even ask, which is part of the reason why there is still a pay gap.

I guess this approach might work for you if there isn't much job mobility in your sector but to me it just sounds like you're using the fact that you underpay your current staff to not pay a new joiner market rate, and it would serve you right if they all jumped ship.

You know what they say about paying peanuts.

I’ve done this in both my previous public sector posts - not right at the top but about one step below. Made the point that my experience, current salary, any additional costs incurred etc meant I would be looking at a starting salary higher up the advertised pay band to make the move worth my while. Both agreed without quibble.

I also absolutely would not raise it an interview as a PP suggested. Your position is stronger with an offer in hand.

That's not true.
There are some differences between the scales at different universities.

The pay scales are broadly the same but not identical. When I was a senior lecturer the top of the scale was £4k more than at the university in the next city.

You can't negotiate off scale but you can certainly negotiate within the advertised scale . I've automatically matched someone's current wage which has meant starting them part way through a particular scale.

It will really depend on the university.

Yes I did this in higher education, I asked for top of the grade and they gave me one point below it. You get annual point increases anyway. Definitely worth asking.

It’s not the scale that is different it is the grading that can vary. The spinal points are the same, a spinal point 30 pays the same everywhere it is just the role benchmarking that can differ so a role could span slightly different spinal points between institutions but the spinal points are the same monetary value.

Except some universities have chosen to implement pay rises despite negotiations continuing.
Me and DH work at different universities and the points are not identical.

But none of this is really relevant to the OPs question anyway. They are asking about movement within a grade, which is possible at many institutions.

Once you're at the top of a band, it's very hard to progress payrise other than cost of living increases in a lot of institutions. If you go in at the top there is nowhere to go - so how likely is someone to stay if they aren't able to progress financially? Recruitment is expensive.

With experience - I think in HE it depends on the role as to how much similar roles can be taken into account. For example in some HE data analysis roles unless you've worked within the specific data regulatory framework you will need to build up the knowledge and experience of it to make the right judgement calls on what to do. Having the skills to then do it would only be half the job. So appointing someone at the top of the grade paying more than others who do have that experience and would have to guide the new people is a difficult sell.

Absolutely you should ask for what you want - I'm a big advocate of that - but it is worth being aware of the limitations in the way the sector operates as to why it's not as straightforward as in other sectors.