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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Can the court force me to do handovers with abuser ex?

56 replies

Pastarasta1 · 05/09/2023 15:52

Currently going through family court. I have been explicitly clear that I will have no contact whatsoever with my daughters father. I'm terrified of him.. I just can't. We have no suitable third party for handovers if contact moves away from supervised and cafcass aren't keen for the contact centre to be used at handovers. Cafcass officer is trying to force me to agree to handovers.. I can't, I just can't.
My solicitor has advised we're protected by Practice Direction 12J so the court will only make an order if its safe.
Can the court force me to do handovers with him?

OP posts:
OnAMidnightTrainToGeorgia · 05/09/2023 15:54

How old is the kid?

Original poster
Pastarasta1 · 05/09/2023 15:54

Only 5.

OP posts:
OnAMidnightTrainToGeorgia · 05/09/2023 15:58

So you can handover easily in a public place

Outside a police station?
A Tesco store entrance
Play centre

At 5 it's easier.

Original poster
Pastarasta1 · 05/09/2023 16:01

I can't see him. He's just absolutely vile. I've had to put myself through therapy because of him. I will never see or speak to him ever again as long as I live. I've been very clear about that to cafcass.

OP posts:
OnAMidnightTrainToGeorgia · 05/09/2023 16:07

That's what I said about my ex

But the kids need to see their dad over rode that.

What's your proposed solution? Offer a solution to the courts.

LylaLee · 05/09/2023 16:09

Child contact centre.

Original poster
Pastarasta1 · 05/09/2023 16:15

I know what you're saying. But my question is can the court force me.. rather than the morality of whether I can or not. I already know i can't.
I've suggested the contact centre for handovers but cafcass aren't keen. I can't be forced to see him.

OP posts:
OnAMidnightTrainToGeorgia · 05/09/2023 16:18

Why aren't carcass keen?

OnAMidnightTrainToGeorgia · 05/09/2023 16:18

*cafcass

Motomum23 · 05/09/2023 16:18

I once saw an advertisement for a childcare role where the only real care required was to deliver and collect child from contact with their parent. Could you suggest this at the exs expense?

Brotherlove · 05/09/2023 16:23

Yes they can force you if they find no real safeguarding concerns. Lots of women end up having to do it when they don't want to. Cafcass are crap.
Suggest school as the drop off/pick up point. It's all you can sensibly do tbh.

OnAMidnightTrainToGeorgia · 05/09/2023 16:27

When is his proposed access time with Dad?

FriendsDrinkBook · 05/09/2023 16:27

Could you have a family member do it for you? That's what was agreed in my similar situation. He doesn't have access to you because he has access to the child.

sandyhappypeople · 05/09/2023 16:29

Is your daughter safe with him?

Thewizardbinbag · 05/09/2023 16:32

Yes, they can force you. If they decide if it safe for you to hand over in a public place then that’s what the court order will be. And you will have to do it.

Original poster
Pastarasta1 · 05/09/2023 16:32

There are safeguarding concerns for sure. We had a fact finding hearing where some significant findings were made against us both. The cafcass agrees there is extreme acrimony between us and moving contact away from the contact centre is problematic at the moment. We're listed for a final hearing next year.. I don't think they'll grant him unsupervised without having done some kind of therapy or course etc.. I would hope anyway. I've suggested his youngest sister whom I know and also has young children but I don't know if he's lied about his relationship with her as he's not keen at all.

OP posts:
Original poster
Pastarasta1 · 05/09/2023 16:33

sandyhappypeople · 05/09/2023 16:29

Is your daughter safe with him?

During supervised contact yes. Beyond that I don't know. He's dangerous and has a really violent temper. He had findings made against him of child abuse.

OP posts:
Blueberrystraw · 05/09/2023 16:39

As a PP said - pick and drop from school (or childminder)

sandyhappypeople · 05/09/2023 16:40

Pastarasta1 · 05/09/2023 16:33

During supervised contact yes. Beyond that I don't know. He's dangerous and has a really violent temper. He had findings made against him of child abuse.

Show quote history

Why on earth are cafcass pushing for handovers (and assumedly non supervised contact) under those circumstances? You'll have to forgive me as I don't know much about it, but is that normal? Surely their interest is primarily the wellbeing of the child?

Who supervises at the moment?

PurpleNebula84 · 05/09/2023 16:41

What is the contact schedule?
Would him picking her up from school be a way it could be done?

LadyMacbethWasMisunderstood · 05/09/2023 16:43

Practice Direction 12J provides that the Court should make an order for contact only if it satisfied that the physical and emotional safety of the child and the parent with care is safeguarded, so far as possible, before, during and after contact.

If the Court, having heard all the evidence, were to take a different view to you about your safety then yes it can order you facilitate contact at specified times. The order itself may not name the person who has to do the handover (though it might) but the responsibility will be yours to ensure your child gets to contact. If you fail to adhere to such an order, without reasonable excuse the potential penalties are fines, community service or imprisonment. The Courts have also changed residence of a child in extreme cases of a parent with care not following orders.

This is in answer to your question whether the court can force you. Yes it can. Well it cannot physically force you of course, but it has the power to make orders for which there are serious consequences if you breach them.

None of this is to presume that the court will do any of this. I am merely answering your question about whether it can.

Your solicitor sounds as though they know what they are doing. Be in a position to obtain the best evidence you can that facing your abuser would cause you harm.

LittleOwl153 · 05/09/2023 16:44

Could you look at getting a non-molestation injunction against him for yourself. This will stop him from being able to contact you or be in your presence. If you qualify for that it would force caffcass to think of another arrangement I guess.

Original poster
Pastarasta1 · 05/09/2023 16:45

sandyhappypeople · 05/09/2023 16:40

Why on earth are cafcass pushing for handovers (and assumedly non supervised contact) under those circumstances? You'll have to forgive me as I don't know much about it, but is that normal? Surely their interest is primarily the wellbeing of the child?

Who supervises at the moment?

Show quote history

Because they've been totally drawn in by his tears no doubt.. DD has had supervised for an incredibly long time now, think years and it's mostly been positive. I've been treated like the abuser also. It's been horrific. We've had 2 amazing judges but 3 awful ones. Cafcass were brilliant until we got to the section 7 and the officer was just awful.

OP posts:
DongsOfPraise · 05/09/2023 16:45

I completely understand how you feel. We had social services involvement rather than Cafcass but they were of a similar mindset: supervised contact to start with and then I essentially force myself to do the drop off and pick ups one on one with him. There were conditions to this though. We were not allowed to bring anyone else with us (his family are dicks so this was why I requested that). He was to never find out where we lived. Drop offs were in a supermarket car park during a busy time so lots of people around. We didn’t communicate information verbally, it all had to be written down in a notebook that went between houses. He didn’t and still doesn’t have my phone number.

I came up with a lot of these plans with my solicitor as she explained to me that if I refused to agree to things regarding contact I needed to show willing to the judge and find other solutions or find myself up against a brick wall and legally forced to do them anyway. Which was hard to hear. Took a lot of therapy and trying to be more confident- I had to fake it for a while.

Im not saying it was easy- it really wasn’t. It’s easier now because the children don’t see him (nowt to do with me; they’re older and have chosen not to).