Can the court force me to do handovers with abuser ex?

[Pastarasta1]

Currently going through family court. I have been explicitly clear that I will have no contact whatsoever with my daughters father. I'm terrified of him.. I just can't. We have no suitable third party for handovers if contact moves away from supervised and cafcass aren't keen for the contact centre to be used at handovers. Cafcass officer is trying to force me to agree to handovers.. I can't, I just can't.
My solicitor has advised we're protected by Practice Direction 12J so the court will only make an order if its safe.
Can the court force me to do handovers with him?

So another year of contact centre supervision? That's a long time for him to 'behave'.. Ime try and enjoy your dd in the meantime.. My exh's hatred towards me was his downfall.. Be patient op.. Handover at school would be good. Teachers can give statements to court if necessary... Handy to have one nearby.. Better than a family member who could be seem to just be taking your side.. Teachers are credible in a courtroom.

Unfortunately yes. I requested in courts to have a third party do handovers on my end as my ex was abusive and that I have ptsd which was made worse by having to see him. Courts were brutal and down right nasty to me and they enabled him to further the abuse. Ex requested to my matter that he didn’t want a third party and only wanted to see me (they should have seen that as a red flag?). So in response, the courts explicitly put in the court order ‘NO THIRD PARTY ALLOWED’. This was among other things that the courts allowed him to do to further the abuse.

Thank you, this is reassuring in a way to read. I think its sadly inevitable that kids realise the non resident parents abusive behaviour and go NC in the majority of cases

We did handovers in our local train station. It's busy and there's a very visible presence of the transport police, so it worked okay.

I think you need to show that you have some realistic proposals to make for handover arrangements (one issue with contact centres is it can be very limited opening hours) or a conclusion might be drawn that you're trying to frustrate contact.

Same experience as Pasta - dd eventually got old enough to vote with her feet not to see her father anymore. I genuinely don't know if I did the right thing by complying with the court orders and making her available for contact. The contact did cause her some harm. It also gave her the chance to make her own informed decision when she could. I honestly don't even know how to weigh it up.

Have you got any friends willing to do handover? I went to court with my ex and due to the history (police involvement for harassment) “stalking” wasn’t a law back then so he was put under harassment instead.. so I was worried and anxious about doing handover incase then he would follow me (did this regularly) and also I was pregnant so didn’t want any abuse off him while carrying my other son.

the courts understood why I didn’t want to do handover, tried to begin with get me to sway my answer but I stood firm because I also had other children to think of and my ex was abusive during the relationship.

they then suggested his family drop off and pick up and my family be there for the handover’s?

you could suggest a family member of his coming to pick up/drop off and a friend of yours being there just to handover.

or like a PP has suggested using a childminder just for the days he picks up/drops off.

did you mention your child is 5? If so, could he pick up on a school day? That way it’s only the dropping off to find someone to allocate for? That’s what I ended up doing.

He has nobody suitable for handovers. DD doesn't know any of his family. I know his younger sister but as mentioned, he wasn't keen for them.. he hasn't given a specific reason. Our current court order is that he doesn't come to school unless invited, so he won't be going there any time soon. I can't really afford an additional childminder onto of the childcare I already pay...
I just can't see or speak to him. We still have screens in court atm. He's enjoying taunting me.. its only a matter of time till he gets DD unsupervised..
I've been abundantly clear with the cafcass guardian I won't do handovers with him and I don't know if she finally got it but she said she won't force the issue at the moment.

No friends or family willing to get involved

We had this, I ended up doing handovers. I tried to say no to my address and phone number and the court gave them to him. This was with proven abuse to us both in family court. Cafcass loved my ex, said he was very sorry for his actions. They wouldn't even allow me to take anyone with me for backup as that was seen as intimidating Ex, but he was allowed to bring someone of course 🙄

DD absolutely loves contact. I don't see her wising up to him anytime soon. I don't want her to hate him but adoring him wears thin a little bit. Especially when he does none of the grunt work. He doesn't even pick her up from school, thats my job to he stopped that after the 2nd lot of school closures. Everytime I mention it he says he'll take me back to court to make it my job, so i just go with it. But DD loves him, so I put up for her sake. She says he's the best dad ever probably because it's me nagging her to brush her teeth and pack her schoolbag while all weekend he eats pizza and plays video games with her.

It's hard. It does get easier. DDs reaching an age now where she can walk to and from his alone soon, not yet but it's nearly over having to see him.

Ex had significant findings against him in court, abuse of both me and DS, but it made no difference. The judge mentioned he was mindful of practice direction 12J in his decisions but I didn't see any evidence of that. Cafcass were truly awful about me despite the judge's findings, letters from Women's Aid etc. It made no sense.

Ex was awarded significant unsupervised contact. It was really hard at the beginning but you get used to it. Apart from during school holidays all of our handovers are at school. So when it is exh weekend I drop at school on Friday, he picks up Friday and drops back Monday. I pick up on Monday. I used to hate holiday handovers at my house. I always had my phone on record in case ex did or said something. Also hid behind the door (in case he tried to throw acid on me - that was a real fear of mine for some time). Now DS is old enough to go to the door himself so I don't have to see him.

Good luck.

That's truly awful.
How is his relationship with his father?

It is good, on the surface. I think that is largely due to exs GF doing a lot of the parenting. DS talks about her more than he talks about his dad. Occasionally things come out, things ex has said, nothing really bad yet but just enough to get my back up because I know the undertones. So then I either bite my tongue or say something to try to gently encourage critical thinking. I can't see him deciding not to see his dad any time soon.

Sounds like you've detached from it all, its horrible though. What contact did the courts give him?

I feel so bad for you. No one understands how bad it is facing someone like this.
I don't have an answer but sending a handhold

Sending you lots of strength, I never had to go through family court with my violent ex as he couldn't be bothered to see his children and doesn't care even now. I had a criminal court case against him 6 years ago, as he stalked me and threatened to chuck acid on me. I've had an injunction which ended and few years ago, he don't have my number - we have no contact. His mother comes and collects the kids every other Saturday and drops them home, they are not allowed to stay over at all. Thank goodness, my kids are 12 & 9 and my eldest hates his dad - they both never want to go.

I know you said family and friends said they don't wanna get involved but maybe explain your mental health is declining or I'm not sure if women's aid could offer a support worker to help? As I explained I don't have much experience or knowledge but sending lots of strength to you!

I just can't do it. Every time we have a court hearing I'm a mess for a good few days after and I haven't even seen him because there's a screen between us.

I don't blame you. It's horrific what women have to go through to these abusers can continue to exert their control.
Let's face it, if they even cared about their kids this situation wouldn't even arise.
It's vile

@DongsOfPraise hi, do you mind me asking what age your children are? I’m going through a separation with children (11/14) refusing to see their abusive Dad.

He’s threatened police/court today and I’m curious to know what age the children will be listened to.

My children are 16 and 11. Their decision about their father happened separately and gradually rather than a sudden realisation and he hasn’t taken me back to court (yet). It does worry me that he might but from what I understand he can’t force them to see him. Certainly not the eldest child.

Thank you. That ties in with what I’ve googled although it is scary and stressful. Realistically what is the alternative? Who would you physically make them do anything they didn’t want to?

Sorry to derail OP. The idea of seeing my ex or forcing the children to see him is horrendous. I sympathise.

Not derailed at all. Xx

It is terrifying. How can they expect you to face the person who caused you sheer terror.

I've had to disclose the name of our daughters school to him and I feel utterly sick at the thought of him turning up.

If you propose that he (for example) collects from school Monday night and returns to school Tuesday morning, or Friday return Monday or whatever, then it kills 2 birds with 1 stone.
1.It gives a handover place.

1. It gives him contact with school...but only on his days when you are not there.

If he turns up on the other days the school can check the court order and say no sorry, not your collection day please leave the premises.

Once it's in a court order the school can say leave even if he has PR

This sounds like a good idea

The trouble is, which I'll try not to make so outing... is that he's only had supervised contact for 2 hours every fortnight in a contact centre for nearly 3 years now,I'm probably thinking quite far into the future about handovers with him..

There is 1.5 distance between us and DD has built up a life in the area we've lived in for 3 years.. I don't even know exactly where he father lives now tbh.

I'm trying to oppose unsupervised contact happening without at least him having therapy and doing a domestic violence perpetrator programme but I've said I'm prepared to support contact in the community in the interim..

I'm actually not even sure he will do any school pick ups..but if he did they certainly wouldn't be weekday ones. Cafcass made it clear it would just be weekend contact if it was to progress in any way so I'm not sure school is a viable option.

I'm just worried about seeing him at school events, any input that is required from both parents (I can't think of anything?) Hes free to just turn up at the school but I know DD wouldn't be released to him..

I really can't bring myself to face him.

Could you drop them at a Saturday hobby or activity, he collects and takes for lunch then drops back at the hobby venue and you collect? I'm thinking somewhere like a dance school or gymnastics centre where there would be someone on the reception desk.