Page 7 | Police shoot pregnant woman dead (USA)

SuddenlyOld · 2023-09-02T06:35:28+00:00

Ok America, since when did it become normal for police officers to point guns at pregnant women accused of shoplifting? She didn't have a weapon or get violent. Turns out she hadn't stolen anything either. If I was black in America I'd be scared to go out 😪😪😪 This is probably the worst thing I've seen ever. [[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-66690408 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-66690408]]

cakeorwine · 02/09/2023 08:45

Shoot first
Questions later

It's hard to question a dead person

And no, you can't shoot to maim. When you shoot, you are shooting to kill. So you need to think about that when you draw your weapon because you are likely to kill someone if you fire it.

A gun society where police always draw weapons because the other person might have a weapon leads to these kind of incidents.

Aren't they trained in deescalation ?

StEImosFire · 02/09/2023 08:45

I don't see how she did anything wrong. She was, quite rightly, terrified. I don't think I would have got out of the car either. She didn't stand a chance either way.

ActDottie · 02/09/2023 08:46

Omg this is terrifying and part of the reason why I would never visit the USA. Poor woman, poor baby. There was no need to have the guns out full stop.

IrresponsiblyCertainAboutSexualDimorphism · 02/09/2023 08:46

Wheresthebloomingsummersunshine · 02/09/2023 08:28

If a policeman was pointing a gun at me I'd panic too, and might press the wrong pedal in my car.

The policeman should be prosecuted for both her death and the death of her unborn child.

You wouldn’t even have to press the wrong pedal. If she’d already taken off the parking brake and put it in drive, ready to go, all she’d have to do is take the pressure off the footbrake.

I suspect if someone was suddenly shouting and pointing a gun at me through the window I might just recoil a bit and the car would creep forward.

MentholLoad · 02/09/2023 08:47

it's insanity. there HAS to be a better selection process for police. we have to get rid of institutional racism

Nopenott0day · 02/09/2023 08:47

This is just a snapshot in the bigger picture of the issue that is US policing.

Their police have far less training then our UK police (about 500 hours compared to 2500 hours). Most of their training (about 70%) is spent on firearms.

Over half the civilian held firearms are owned in the USA it is intrinsic to their culture.

It is drilled into the police there that everyone is a threat to them, they could be shot.

However if we compare the USA to Finland who also have a high firearm ownership, Finland's police have over 5000 hours training and very very few civilian casualties.

The USA police need far better training.

Nemesias · 02/09/2023 08:47

missmollygreen · 02/09/2023 08:15

Put yourselves in the police mans shoes for a second.
You get called to a suspected shoplifter, you tell her to stop, but instead the car is put into drive and bumps into you. You have to make a split second decision about whether she is going to stamp on the throttle and run you over.
What do you do?

You jump back out of the way and shoot out a tire. Or let the car go and call in backup.

What you don’t do is shoot the driver dead

Inastatus · 02/09/2023 08:48

This is absolutely shocking. How can anyone possibly defend the action of the police in these circumstances. Even if she had shoplifted, it’s hardly the worst crime, WTF were guns involved! Poor woman and her innocent unborn child 😢

SidekickSylvia · 02/09/2023 08:49

Wheresthebloomingsummersunshine · 02/09/2023 08:28

If a policeman was pointing a gun at me I'd panic too, and might press the wrong pedal in my car.

The policeman should be prosecuted for both her death and the death of her unborn child.

I know a couple of posters have already mentioned this, but I just want to reiterate; when you drive an automatic, if your car is in 'drive' and you take your foot off the brake pedal, the car will slowly roll forward. It's not a deliberate action, it's a lack of action, probably caused by panic or fear.

Pleaseme · 02/09/2023 08:49

Ohhelpicantthinkofaname · 02/09/2023 07:50

I expect it was an accident as she was terrified. No one’s going to be able to act calmly with a gun pointing at their face!

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Absolutely. I’d panic. I know UK police aren’t great but we have problems with antisocial behaviour near my ( town centre) work. Police come along and deal with it a lot. It’s always really calm, quiet voices. Non - aggressive body language.

It seems like us cops are always screaming and aggressive

junbean · 02/09/2023 08:50

You have to understand the type of people who pursue the career of being a cop. They crave power over anyone weaker than them and they are granted that power, in an environment of misogyny, racism, etc. with no accountability. And the prevailing national mindset glorifies and worships them. It’s a very us vs. them culture. Just go read about the KKK- which is still very active at present- and you’ll see what I mean. And it’s all rooted in white male inferiority complex.

GameOverBoys · 02/09/2023 08:50

The police are undertrained and probably scared. They will likely have had people draw weapons on them or shot at them before. They may have had colleagues killed. On top of that in ‘cop culture’ they will be encouraged to think of the general public as the enemy.
The woman will also be scared. She may have also known people who have been assaulted/shot by police and if not she will definitely have seen many news stories. Sprinkle in a load of guns and racism and this is where we are.
She is very unlikely to have been trying to flee the scene. She probably made a mistake and took her foot off the pedal. But we will never know for sure now because she’s dead. Those officers need to be sacked and prosecuted. The whole police force in America needs to be reformed. It’s all a complete shit show.

StefanosHill · 02/09/2023 08:52

BlackberryCrumbs · 02/09/2023 08:44

They seem to go in with a "shoot or be shot" attitude which I doubt will ever change all the time carrying a gun is their legal right

For every video I've seen of police in the US shooting someone dead with no apparent cause (like in this one) - I've seen 5 more where police acting entirely appropriately and calmly with an apparently calm member of the public has suddenly been shot when the person they stopped whipped out a gun.

There's quite obviously no reason for this shooting. And racism clearly a problem. But I can fully understand why generally the 'shoot or be shot' mentality in some police is there. They're on their toes, and the very realistic possibility of being shot dead during their normal, boring working day is probably always at the front of their mind.

The problem is guns.

The issue is guns as you say they are always with the gun out ready.

It won’t change though, it’s too entrenched

MentholLoad · 02/09/2023 08:53

the way they were telling her to get out of the car in the first place was aggressive and intimidating and unnecessary. if they had explained the issue in a human way to start with, she probably wouldn't have been too terrified to cooperate. stupid fuckers, I hope they are imprisoned for murder

cakeorwine · 02/09/2023 08:53

Pleaseme · 02/09/2023 08:49

Absolutely. I’d panic. I know UK police aren’t great but we have problems with antisocial behaviour near my ( town centre) work. Police come along and deal with it a lot. It’s always really calm, quiet voices. Non - aggressive body language.

It seems like us cops are always screaming and aggressive

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I guess we only see the interactions that make the news (survivor bias) and we don't see the videos that show the police who are friendly. deescalating and don't go in like this.

I wonder if these videos are ever shown as training videos for US police with discussion on how to handle the situation?

7eleven · 02/09/2023 08:53

Will there be riots I wonder, or will it not matter quite so much because the victim was a woman?

Toomanylaughs · 02/09/2023 08:54

I’m glad most people are agreeing this is inexcusable behaviour and there are very few apologists for this heinous behaviour like I seen on another thread a month or so ago re. a black mother in London being manhandled by police for allegedly not having a bus ticket (she did actually have one!) these things are all connected the aggressive racial profiling and rougher arrest treatment at one end and the harsher jail sentences and police violence at the other. I hope people connect the dots and realise it’s all part of a pattern. If the Met had guns I have no doubt black Londoners would face the same fate.

I love America and visit at least once a year, the people are upbeat and friendly and I love it there so much, but things like this really make me remember what it can be like.

NalafromtheLionKing · 02/09/2023 08:55

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The whole thing is just horrible and absolutely inexcusable. So, so wrong.

Even if the lady had not been “an innocent woman” (whether through shoplifting or a more serious crime though nothing in the video suggested she was anything other than an ordinary mum), it is up to a judge to decide that after the proper processes had been followed.

Toomanylaughs · 02/09/2023 08:55

7eleven · 02/09/2023 08:53

Will there be riots I wonder, or will it not matter quite so much because the victim was a woman?

Exactly! Don’t get me talking about the sexism which led to the #sayhername movement.

Brefugee · 02/09/2023 08:56

MadamWhiteleigh · 02/09/2023 08:00

You need to expand on that.

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yep, last i looked in the US as well as in most other western democracies, the presumption is innocent (until proven guilty)

It reminds me of the rape case in Scotland (?) where 4 of the 5 victims have gone public. One said that he was treated as though innocent unless proved guilty (as is right) but they were assumed to be lying bitches from the start, and treated accordingly.

I will have as little contact with the police in UK (and US if i ever went there, unlikely) as humanly possible, going forward.

StefanosHill · 02/09/2023 08:56

GameOverBoys · 02/09/2023 08:50

The police are undertrained and probably scared. They will likely have had people draw weapons on them or shot at them before. They may have had colleagues killed. On top of that in ‘cop culture’ they will be encouraged to think of the general public as the enemy.
The woman will also be scared. She may have also known people who have been assaulted/shot by police and if not she will definitely have seen many news stories. Sprinkle in a load of guns and racism and this is where we are.
She is very unlikely to have been trying to flee the scene. She probably made a mistake and took her foot off the pedal. But we will never know for sure now because she’s dead. Those officers need to be sacked and prosecuted. The whole police force in America needs to be reformed. It’s all a complete shit show.

Fear on both sides looks like the interaction can so easily break down

She didn’t get out, presumably thought I’m not getting out you have a gun pointed at me and I’m pregnant

gillygeey · 02/09/2023 08:57

There's quite obviously no reason for this shooting. And racism clearly a problem. But I can fully understand why generally the 'shoot or be shot' mentality in some police is there. They're on their toes, and the very realistic possibility of being shot dead during their normal, boring working day is probably always at the front of their mind.

The problem is guns.

Exactly, I watched two excellent documentaries about guns/police in America a few yrs ago. One was about one officer who pulled over a young black man for a traffic violation & ended up killing him & some time later did the same to a young white man. It was about the case & trial against the officer. The other was a docu following a force & how pulling over someone from a traffic stop could result in a officer getting shot. It's completely fucked up & obviously race is an issue but the biggest problem is guns.

The biggest killer of US children is guns not cars. But nothing will change

Toomanylaughs · 02/09/2023 08:57

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People might say I should be surprised as your comment given your username but unfortunately I’m not surprised at all.

Hobbi · 02/09/2023 08:58

@Proudgypsy

What crime had George Floyd committed on the day of his murder? He has done nothing on that day so was, in fact, innocent. He'd been a criminal in the past - do we summarily execute past criminals on a whim?

BMW6 · 02/09/2023 08:59

gillygeey · 02/09/2023 08:11

Of course they are. The gun laws in the US are a vicious cycle. Everyone has a gun, so everyone needs a gun to feel safe, but the fact that everyone has a gun makes everyone fearful of being shot, so they have to use their guns to defend themselves just in case the other person has a gun and shoots them first.

obviously guns aren’t the problem though, the gun laws are fine and everyone’s safer with them. Anyway it their constitutional right as Americans to be able to defend themselves with guns. It’s what keeps everyone safe.

this is exactly it.

Yep. It's become a "kill or be killed" mindset.