Police shoot pregnant woman dead (USA)

[SuddenlyOld]

Ok America, since when did it become normal for police officers to point guns at pregnant women accused of shoplifting?
She didn't have a weapon or get violent. Turns out she hadn't stolen anything either.
If I was black in America I'd be scared to go out 😪😪😪
This is probably the worst thing I've seen ever.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-66690408

There is a massive difference between behaving irrationally or running away from the police, and driving a 2 ton car directly at one. A car that will reach 30mph within roughly 4 seconds. With that knowledge in your head in a split second as it comes towards you, I think I'd of made a similar decision.

What firing you know bullets that can blow humans apart, at point blank range into someone.?

And if that's "driving directly" I've seen it all.

Is that relevant in this instance though?

Not necessarily to this exact case, Iwantcakeveryday, but then apart from some harrowing videos our knowledge of the case is limited - especially as to what intelligence the police may have had which might have affected their assessment of risk

It is of course dreadful that a woman and her unborn child have lost their lives; that's so obvious that it hardly needs saying. However for me the relevance relates to the bigger picture and the effect much of the narrative may have on the wider community

She wasn't driving directly at him. You can distinctly see her turn the wheel away from the officer in all of the videos. You can also see the car wheels turn away from him, plus there is the fact that the car rolled off in the opposite direction proving it was facing that way she was killed.

That man had ample time to step aside.

And it still looks to me like he jumped up on the bonnet to get a better vantage point to shoot from.

You should include in that post that they then made off without stopping.
https://news.sky.com/story/athlete-ricardo-dos-santos-pulled-over-by-police-for-second-time-12673430

I had a car at one point it appeared it had a marker on it and was stopped SEVEN times in it. On one occasion twice within 10 minutes, once by traffic and once by local. Did I think I was being victimised and drive off? No because like most of us I have more between my ears.

You must also look at the high number of high end cars stolen in the London area. Would Mr Dos Santos be upset if the car had been stopped and found to have been stolen from him when seen driving at 4am Sunday morning.

I haven’t read the link but if I remember correctly the police said they wanted to pull them over because they thought the driver was using a mobile phone at the wheel. They failed to stop after being signalled to pull over and only did so when the officers called for back up.

I do wonder what the thoughts of the other 2 people involved are

We'll probably find out, especially with the bystander (?) who called the police over, since they'll almost certainly be required to give statements

Giving statements is one thing.
What they are actually thinking is another.

Several years ago I bought a good used car from a dealer. Had driven it for about a week and was stopped by the police. It had belonged to a local drug dealer, I was stopped several times after that , as i knew I would be , until the DVLA changed the details. I've also been stopped when I actually worked in a police control room ;twice, I had an unusual car , one not normally see in the UK, and I was stopped and searched in a neighbouring police authority when i worked in the control room. Apparently a lone woman wandering around with several men,all of us in our 20s , was thought to be odd or worrying.
Yes,i know I'm going to be told 'but you are white' , and I am. But I also try to use my brain and know I would come off worse if I acted like a pratt.

especially as to what intelligence the police may have had which might have affected their assessment of risk

The police were working on another case helping a lady in a locked car. They were called over by a shop worker. I don't see what intelligence they could have had when approaching this car.

The other officer is in a shitty situation too.

In such a small department, going against the one that shot could have his identity leaked(further on this in my next paragraph) , get bullied massively, end up without a job, and worse. Of course, he could completely agree with the actions of his colleague.

We know he lied about the arm thing. That's because unless he's a victim himself (like his partner also alleges so can't really contradict him there) , the law that protects his identity wouldn't apply. He's worried about his own protection and fears retaliation since he'd be the only one available and he is back on duty.

From experience I can say that anyone who lives in a small town and is well known for other offences will be recognised by the police without them having to ask names.

They did tell her though? And from her reply she knew exactly why they were there. She shouldn't have been killed but I don't think making up stories helps anyone.

"An acting police sergeant and four police constables are all facing gross misconduct disciplinary hearings in connection with the first incident in 2020, in which Mr dos Santos and Ms Williams were stopped.
The couple was handcuffed and details of their baby stored on a police database during the stop in Maida Vale, west London"

Good to read. After the 5 minute drive about and stopping him for his mobile phone and several officers turned up they let him go. Oh he is not a danger to the public after all. London runs 24 hours a day you can go to the shop at 4am. I hope Mr Dos Santos and Ms Williams get justice.

They did tell her though? And from her reply she knew exactly why they were there. She shouldn't have been killed but I don't think making up stories helps anyone

Eventually. After banging on her windscreen several times and telling her to "Get out" repeatedly.

That's correct.

Oh as usual the victims is Shroedinger's perp, simultaneously unknown and impossible to track/apprehend otherwise AND dangerous, with the police having a full name, track record and her bra size.

I checked out the statistics for myself and the results are indeed shocking...and very surprising. According to the website Statista between 2017 up to August this year significantly more white than black people were fatally shot by the police. Genuinely shocked by this.

Sadly, the trend of fatal police shootings in the United States seems to only be increasing, with a total 555 civilians having been shot, 75 of whom were Black, as of July 25, 2023. In 2022, there were 1,097 fatal police shootings. Additionally, the rate of fatal police shootings among Black Americans was much higher than that for any other ethnicity, standing at 5.8 fatal shootings per million of the population per year between 2015 and May 2023.

My partner was stopped for the same thing and he was cooperative. He was driving a Merc and the officer suspected the same thing in London this happened. The car was a work car if that makes any difference. The officer said to him who do you think the judge will believe him or my partner who is a black man. He let him go in the end.

Nobody is saying you cannot go shopping at 4am Sunday morning. But there is also higher instances of cars having been stolen throughout the night or especially on early Sunday morning. Drink drivers. As previously stated would the couple of complained if the police had recovered their stolen car. Would we all be relieved if he was stopped and found to be pissed.

The reason he ended up surrounded by 5 officers is he failed to stop. Also I believe the enquiry found the officers behaviour proportionate.

You do realise that white people are the majority in the US right?

It was a waste of police time nothing came from it. I wouldn't read to much into their enquiry after the incident the police are renowned for.looking out for their own.

Or the reality could be that the Police did behave reasonably.

Instead of refusing to stop why not just, I dunno, pull over, give the officer your details. He will do a quick check you are the rightful owner and nothing untoward is happening, and you carry on with your evening. Not every interaction with the Police has to be antagonistic or racist.

Justice for what ? What actually happened was that despite the police car signalling repeatedly for them to pull over, they failed to do so. The other officers had to call for back up to stop them, and that’s why other officers ‘turned up’. They suspected the driver of using a mobile phone behind the wheel, which is dangerous and against the law. What would you have had them do ?

This made me so sad when I read this.
The report I read claimed that she was accelerating towards the officer but reading other posters comments I agree - why shoot AT her?
Devastated for her family.