Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Police shoot pregnant woman dead (USA)

999 replies

SuddenlyOld · 02/09/2023 07:35

Ok America, since when did it become normal for police officers to point guns at pregnant women accused of shoplifting?
She didn't have a weapon or get violent. Turns out she hadn't stolen anything either.
If I was black in America I'd be scared to go out 😪😪😪
This is probably the worst thing I've seen ever.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-66690408

Footage of police with guns drawn

Bodycam video shows Ohio police fatally shooting pregnant black woman

Ta'Kiya Young, 21, appears to advance the car towards an Ohio officer before a single shot is fired.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-66690408

OP posts:
Thread gallery
19
roundtable · 02/09/2023 12:31

yakigi7 · 02/09/2023 11:42

Are you @devlesko? She was also a 'proud gypsy' who saw any criticism of a traveller as the worse form of racism and yet was frequently horribly racist towards black people.

Show quote history

I thought the same thing. It's a shame as Proudgypsy has been, quite rightly, vigorously defending travellers and gypsys when she has felt racist things have been said but like the poster you mentioned, turns as soon as it's other certain ethnicities.

It's awful. Unless there is a death penalty in ohio for shoplifting, that situation was escalated so much with tragic results.

It's thread like these though where I wish racist comments weren't deleted as hard to find proof for all the posters who demand evidence of racism on mn. Or if they are going to delete them then say - message deleted for racist comment.

That could apply to all isms really. Message deleted for ageist/ableist/sexist etc comment.

TheWeeDonkeyFella · 02/09/2023 12:33

Aaron95 · 02/09/2023 08:03

This is the problem of a society where guns are everywhere. The US police have to assume that everybody is armed and may try to shoot them at any time. Hence the drawn guns for what is a straightforward incident.

Show quote history

Based on my own experience, I think you're right and this is part of the problem.

I approached a policeman once in the US, while simultaneously holding my glasses and also using the same hand trying to get my glasses case out of my handbag to swap over with my sunglasses. I stopped dead in my tracks when he reached for his gun. He then screamed at me never to approach an officer while pulling something from a bag. My hands were full so not sure how I'd have been able to draw and aim a gun and was also just exiting from the Pentagon, so not like a randomer in the middle of a rioting crowd, but it was a hard lesson for me about (some) police attitudes.

Truemilk · 02/09/2023 12:33

People saying why didn't she just get out of the car and comply. She's probably fed up of the stereotyping, fed up of racist cops, she's standing up for herself because she's done nothing wrong.

That cop could have literally just stepped out of the way of her car as she drove towards him, his life wasn't in danger at all. You see British police officers dealing with these situations without guns.

saffronsoup · 02/09/2023 12:34

In the last 9 years in America, the police have killed 381 women. Of those women, 212 were white, 69 were black, 42 were Hispanic.

Of the 381 women, 35 were unarmed when shot. Of the 381 women, 18 were unarmed and not fleeing the scene. Of the 381 women killed by police in the last 9 nine years, 8 were unarmed black women - of whom 3 were killed when fleeing the scene. Of the 381 women killed by police in the last 9 years, 18 were unarmed white women, of whom 8 were killed when fleeing the scene.

So in the last 9 years - 5 black women were killed when unarmed and not fleeing, 8 when you include fleeing and 10 white women were killed when unarmed and not fleeing, 18 when you include fleeing.

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 02/09/2023 12:34

Qilin · 02/09/2023 12:21

The fact that the car continues to drive forward, remaining at the same slow steady pace would also make me think that it was more than she released the brake pedal more than actively drive forward.

This is what many auto cars do, as has been mentioned many times.

The car doesn't rev, you can barely hear any car sound at all Infact.

And they're still screaming at her to stop the car, while she's slumped over, dying.

Hobbi · 02/09/2023 12:35

gillygeey · 02/09/2023 12:31

That's just untrue. Less than 1 in five applicants for the police are successful. There's literally people queuing up to join.

and the calibre of those people are the best society has to offer?

That's not what you said. You said there was a shortage of folk wanting to be police officers, not a shortage of good candidates. It's always attracted a certain type of buffoon and, as we're now replacing the 80s in all respects, currently seems to be favouring reactionary thugs again.

Ponoka7 · 02/09/2023 12:36

Keha · 02/09/2023 11:50

Maybe she didn't stop because she was guilty and had been shop lifting. Maybe she didn't stop because she was pissed off at being accused by the police and was angry. Neither of those things warrant death.

I do not for one second think the police officers life was at risk as she edged forward. He could have moved, they could have taken her license plates and followed it up later. Her poor kids, 3 and 6. How the hell do you tell them their mum (and unborn sibling) is dead?

Or more likely that she didn't want to be body slammed I to the floor and cuffed behind her back, all dangerous for a pregnant woman. The treatment of children and very elderly people by the US police is disgusting. There's often four male police officers and they still cuff a child. In this country we manage to not do this, so either way this is a failure of the police in the US. MNers are still getting heavily involved in their 21 year olds life, this young woman was only 21, black (which can be a death sentence in the US) and pregnant. Of course she panicked.

whynotwhatknot · 02/09/2023 12:36

the car hardly moves likke when you take your foot off the brake-there was no need to fatality shoot her

theres going to be mayhem now

Hobbi · 02/09/2023 12:37

saffronsoup · 02/09/2023 12:34

In the last 9 years in America, the police have killed 381 women. Of those women, 212 were white, 69 were black, 42 were Hispanic.

Of the 381 women, 35 were unarmed when shot. Of the 381 women, 18 were unarmed and not fleeing the scene. Of the 381 women killed by police in the last 9 nine years, 8 were unarmed black women - of whom 3 were killed when fleeing the scene. Of the 381 women killed by police in the last 9 years, 18 were unarmed white women, of whom 8 were killed when fleeing the scene.

So in the last 9 years - 5 black women were killed when unarmed and not fleeing, 8 when you include fleeing and 10 white women were killed when unarmed and not fleeing, 18 when you include fleeing.

Now do the stats for likelihood of death by cop by race. Raw numbers are so obviously irrelevant as to be almost deliberately misleading.

Keha · 02/09/2023 12:38

@Ponoka7 you may well be correct..but even the "worse case scenario" that she was a fleeing shoplifter makes no difference, she didn't need to be shot.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 02/09/2023 12:38

saffronsoup · 02/09/2023 12:34

In the last 9 years in America, the police have killed 381 women. Of those women, 212 were white, 69 were black, 42 were Hispanic.

Of the 381 women, 35 were unarmed when shot. Of the 381 women, 18 were unarmed and not fleeing the scene. Of the 381 women killed by police in the last 9 nine years, 8 were unarmed black women - of whom 3 were killed when fleeing the scene. Of the 381 women killed by police in the last 9 years, 18 were unarmed white women, of whom 8 were killed when fleeing the scene.

So in the last 9 years - 5 black women were killed when unarmed and not fleeing, 8 when you include fleeing and 10 white women were killed when unarmed and not fleeing, 18 when you include fleeing.

Don't spoil it with facts, Saffronsoup ...

Aranas · 02/09/2023 12:38

Puzzledandpissedoff · 02/09/2023 12:30

Even given the obvious problems with guns in the US, maybe we could wait until more is known before declaring instant verdicts of murder - unless of course those who claim to know sufficient facts were there, in which case it must have been pretty crowded?

In the meantime it appears that even Ta'Kiya's own grandmother had a protection order against her, so while nobody with sense would say she "deserved to die" it's just possible there may be more to this:

https://eu.dispatch.com/story/news/local/2023/08/25/takiya-young-kiya-blendon-township-woman-killed-police-shooting-kroger-columbus-ohio-mother/70681554007/

Why on earth does her background matter? There's a reason past offences aren't brought up in front of a jury before a judgement is made in UK courts (I know the US system is different).
Even IF she shoplifted or didn't get on with a family member, her and her baby didn't deserve to be shot and killed.

Hobbi · 02/09/2023 12:38

gillygeey · 02/09/2023 12:37

But not a shortage of people wanting to join.

gillygeey · 02/09/2023 12:39

@Hobbi apologies, I really didn't think I had to explicitly state that the people who apply for the police need to be good candidates! Surely that's obvious particularly when I'm responding to a post about the quality of police officers & their capability when dealing with stressful situations...

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 02/09/2023 12:40

gillygeey · 02/09/2023 12:24

Agreed about her driving at them - bad idea.I really think that they wouldn't have fired if it was a white woman. I actually think they would have let her drive off. They massively over reacted and it stinks of racism.

I don't think you can be sure tbh, everyone is at bloody risk, although risk is higher for block people & native Americans. There was that white woman who was shot after calling 911. She approached the response car & the police officer for whatever reason (panic again) shot her. He did get convicted of murder, I remembered it as it's unusual officers get charged.

And he got released in june last year. He had one conviction overturned, and ended up with 4 years and some change with time served. Yes, it's a surprise he was convicted in the first place, but that's not exactly justice served was it?

Aranas · 02/09/2023 12:40

Hobbi · 02/09/2023 12:37

Now do the stats for likelihood of death by cop by race. Raw numbers are so obviously irrelevant as to be almost deliberately misleading.

Show quote history

This.

Citing where figures came from would also be good.

Ponoka7 · 02/09/2023 12:42

If you watch the storming of Capitol. Police manage to not shoot the white proud boys and the other white rioters, even though they were under direct threat. So they can use other methods when it suits.

Sayitaintso33 · 02/09/2023 12:42

saffronsoup · 02/09/2023 12:34

In the last 9 years in America, the police have killed 381 women. Of those women, 212 were white, 69 were black, 42 were Hispanic.

Of the 381 women, 35 were unarmed when shot. Of the 381 women, 18 were unarmed and not fleeing the scene. Of the 381 women killed by police in the last 9 nine years, 8 were unarmed black women - of whom 3 were killed when fleeing the scene. Of the 381 women killed by police in the last 9 years, 18 were unarmed white women, of whom 8 were killed when fleeing the scene.

So in the last 9 years - 5 black women were killed when unarmed and not fleeing, 8 when you include fleeing and 10 white women were killed when unarmed and not fleeing, 18 when you include fleeing.

Fleeing the scene of a shoplifting does not merit execution.

WingingItSince1973 · 02/09/2023 12:44

missmollygreen · 02/09/2023 08:15

Put yourselves in the police mans shoes for a second.
You get called to a suspected shoplifter, you tell her to stop, but instead the car is put into drive and bumps into you. You have to make a split second decision about whether she is going to stamp on the throttle and run you over.
What do you do?

You don't fatally shoot her in the head for a start! But also she was a pregnant woman who was a suspected shoplifter. The initial contact from them was way over the line and aggressive. I can't even begin to imagine how frightened and confused she must have felt not understanding this sudden ambush. If she was a white woman (as I am) some of the replies here would be a lot different. We have become too desensitised to what it actually means to be a black person in America today when those that are meant to protect you also could be your killer.

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 02/09/2023 12:45

Puzzledandpissedoff · 02/09/2023 12:30

Even given the obvious problems with guns in the US, maybe we could wait until more is known before declaring instant verdicts of murder - unless of course those who claim to know sufficient facts were there, in which case it must have been pretty crowded?

In the meantime it appears that even Ta'Kiya's own grandmother had a protection order against her, so while nobody with sense would say she "deserved to die" it's just possible there may be more to this:

https://eu.dispatch.com/story/news/local/2023/08/25/takiya-young-kiya-blendon-township-woman-killed-police-shooting-kroger-columbus-ohio-mother/70681554007/

Her background is irrelevant, as the police wouldn't have known any of that. She could've been a serial killer, it's irrelevant. The crime they were "investigating " was shoplifting.

What you see on the video is what happened. Nothing that she did makes it a justifiable shooting (oh I'm sure the defence will twist it any which way with the officer "in fear of his life") and as such it is murder.

gillygeey · 02/09/2023 12:45

@AngryGreasedSantaCatcus I haven't made any judgment about whether justice was served? I just don't think anyone is entirely safe!

Puzzledandpissedoff · 02/09/2023 12:46

Even IF she shoplifted or didn't get on with a family member, her and her baby didn't deserve to be shot and killed

Quite right, and I said as much myself - though a protection order may suggest rather more than just "not getting on" with someone

I just wonder if there are things known to the police (and not to us) which may have informed their assessment of risk, and that's something we'll learn more about at the inquiry

Which is why I suggested it would be wise to wait before handing out the inevitable armchair verdicts of murder

AcesBaseballbat · 02/09/2023 12:46

SapphosRock · 02/09/2023 07:59

I knew before I opened the thread the woman would be black.

No pregnant, white woman in the US would be shot by the police

Horrifically racist and violent place.

YANBU.

Exactly.

And I knew the second I saw that she was black that within the first 5 posts there'd be someone blaming her for her own murder.

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 02/09/2023 12:46

saffronsoup · 02/09/2023 12:34

In the last 9 years in America, the police have killed 381 women. Of those women, 212 were white, 69 were black, 42 were Hispanic.

Of the 381 women, 35 were unarmed when shot. Of the 381 women, 18 were unarmed and not fleeing the scene. Of the 381 women killed by police in the last 9 nine years, 8 were unarmed black women - of whom 3 were killed when fleeing the scene. Of the 381 women killed by police in the last 9 years, 18 were unarmed white women, of whom 8 were killed when fleeing the scene.

So in the last 9 years - 5 black women were killed when unarmed and not fleeing, 8 when you include fleeing and 10 white women were killed when unarmed and not fleeing, 18 when you include fleeing.

Now how do those compare with percentages of the population?