Police shoot pregnant woman dead (USA)

[SuddenlyOld]

Ok America, since when did it become normal for police officers to point guns at pregnant women accused of shoplifting?
She didn't have a weapon or get violent. Turns out she hadn't stolen anything either.
If I was black in America I'd be scared to go out 😪😪😪
This is probably the worst thing I've seen ever.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-66690408

you know all those threads where MNetters say this place is full of racists? and so many people say "noooo you're just oversensitive"

Read this. Then read the rest of the thread.
They are right. It is shaming.

Correct, I misread the info.

Also not a death penalty fan.

*My brother and family live in California.

He says if you're ever stopped by the police in a car, you should keep your hands visible and you should move slowly. He's taught his kids that.

You know, in case they lose the plot.

And you know in the US the police are not a centralised institution with specific and extensive training.

They are employed locally to different rules and regs sometimes with very minimal training.*
But with guns.

I'm a law abiding middle aged, middle class woman. One of my DC is in the Police. Non of us know how we'd react when threatened. In my case, I was driving home along a dark dual carriageway and an unmarked car with blue lights started to follow me.
I thought it was a fake police car and drove as fast as I could to get away. In that moment, I just panicked and was too scared to stop.
Luckily for me, the UK police decided they'd just back right off and follow up later. Which they did.
I never thought I'd try to evade the police but fear and adrenalin make you do odd things.
The police should be able to manage their adrenalin response appropriately, not shoot dead an innocent woman.

All of this.

So where do we go from there? Accept trigger happy police if in doubt will shoot you? If we don't comply that's it and it's our own fault?

So much minimising so ultimately it can be her fault she was murdered.

*She made the bad choice to drive into a police officer standing in front of her car to flee the scene while being investigated for a potential crime and having been told she was not free to leave.

How justified or unjustified the officers actions were doesn't change that she made a bad decision*

And if she was arrested and convicted for that, fair enough. But she wasn't. She was murdered. We do not kill people for bad decisions.

Oh come on. If I was in that situation I would step aside and call for backup. What I would not do is shoot to kill. Would you? Really??

Also he was waving his gun around before she put the car into drive. I think she panicked and made a bad decision but ffs that does not mean she should be killed.

Automatic cars are very common in the US. They do roll forward (sometimes quite fast if on an incline) if you take your foot off the brake (poss in panic!)

I would be hesitant to stop if I were black & confronted by US Police.
It's not an indicator of being guilty, just trying to preserve your own life.
They seem to shoot first & ask questions later.

@tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz I've not minimised at all & of course it's not her fault.

But again this will only keep happen with the gun culture they have. I don't believe you can separate the two. You will have trigger happy police in these situations because in that moment no one can be sure how anyone will react.

Yes

So many thick apologists on here.

Should the police have shot the mother who was apprehended in London for SUSPECTED bus fare evasion? If she gets angry, then what? Shoot her because she should have just shut up?

Statistically rare doesn't mean rare in everyday language. It's statistically rare to be mauled by a dog or injured/killed by drunk driver. That doesn't mean we just brush it off as a non-issue when it happens.

Here's a list of unarmed African Americans killed by police since 2020

Kwame Jones
William Howard Green
Jaquyn Oneill Light
Leonard Parker Jr.
Manuel Ellis
Barry Gedeus
Donnie Sanders
Breonna Taylor
Daniel Prude
Fred Brown
Denzel Marshal Taylor
Shaun Fuhr
Maurice Gordon
George Floyd
William Wade Burgess III
Ammir Johnson
Julian Edward Roosevelt Lewis
Kurt Reinhold
Jonathan Price
Anthony Jones
Dana Young
Marcellis Stinnette
Frederick Cox
Angelo Crooms
Sincere Pierce
Johnny Lorenzo Bolton
Andre Hill
Carl Dorsey
Akeem Terrell
Patrick Warren
Lymond Moses
Jenoah Donald
Daverion Deauntre Kinard
James Lionel Johnson
Dominique Williams
Daunte Wright
Lindani Myeni
Andrew Brown Jr.
La'Mello Parker
Latoya James
Renardo Green
Jermaine Sonnier
Frederick Holder
Laneal Frazier
James Holland Sr
Tory Brown
Fanta Bility
Cedric Lofton
Michael Craig
Jermaine Jones
Jim Rogers
Calvin Wilks Jr
Eldred Wells Sr
Quadry Sanders
Terence Caffey
James Lowery
Jason Walker
Dyonta Quarles Jr
Robert "Junior" Langley
Donnell Rochester
Tracy Gaeta
Tyrea Pryor
Patrick Lyoya
Herman Whitfield
Jalen Randle
Jayland Walker
Brett Rosenau
Roderick Brooks
Jason Lipscomb
Raymond Chaluisant
Kyle Dail
Nasanto Antonio Crenshaw
Donovan Lewis
Genesis Hicks
Gershun Freeman
James Wilborn
Eric Allen
Ki'Azia Miller
Eric Holmes
Keith Murriel
Tyre Nichols
Darryl Williams
Alonzo Bagley
Timothy McCree Johnson
Irvo Otieno
Delaneo Martin
Jawan Dallas
Jarrell Garris
Ricky Cobb II
Brandon Cole
Ta'kiya Young

But yeah it's super rare.

Reasons for death include being nearish a burglary, trying out a bike you were going to by (seller stated this to polics prior to the killing, holding a lighter when pulled over, getting out of a vehicle, staying in a vehicle, hitting a police vehicle by mistake, having a mental health episode while in a police cell, being a victim of a stabbing, throwing down a firearm to comply, napping with a vape pen in your hand, visiting your cousin, being 3-months old and having a suspected criminal dad, and so on.

I wonder what the views in the USA are?

Highly polarised.

There’s three posters on this thread who should be banned. Being a racist twat should get you banned.

Imagine knowing them in real life! They must be vile.

And if she was arrested and convicted for that, fair enough. But she wasn't. She was murdered. We do not kill people for bad decisions.

Americans do kill people for bad decisions or just looking a bit dodgy.

And in the UK if you are suspected by the police of having a firearm a bad decision could cost you

Exactly. I know several people who have made bad decisions, for example in the recent riots in Bristol a friend of mine stupidly tried to push a police officer over. He was, rightfully, convicted and sent to prison. What he was not was shot dead.

missmollygreen
Put yourselves in the police mans shoes for a second.
You get called to a suspected shoplifter, you tell her to stop, but instead the car is put into drive and bumps into you. You have to make a split second decision about whether she is going to stamp on the throttle and run you over.
What do you do?

@missmollygreen

Are you for real?

There are probably half a dozen ways this would have been dealt with correctly and efficiently in this country, without a dead woman and a dead almost born baby.

And no I wouldn't be shooting through the window.

there is that TINY INCONVENIENCE of the law saying she is innocent.

It's pretty disgusting that posters who make racist comments on this forum get to stay. I should be an automatic ban.

It literally does not matter if she was innocent or not.

@missmollygreen

The car was rolling slowly towards the policeman not driving at him at 60mph. He had ample opportunity to remove himself from the front of the car. She had been "accused" of shoplifting, hardly a crime that needed weapons to be drawn, resulting in someone being shot. As it turns out a completely innocent person being shot. The policeman had a number of options available to him, he did not need to use lethal force.

I think their lack of critical thinking from the word go is horribly clear here.

I'm asking if any one posting here thinks generally, that no one should be arrested? Because that is what some people seem to think, instead of accepting that we want crime to be investigated and that means people get arrested.
Do I think she should have been shot? No, I don't , but knowing that police in the US do shoot, complying would be the better option.
We don't know how complying would have ended, but we do know that not complying resulted in her death.

@sunglassesonthetable I mentioned upthread a recent London case about a man getting shot by police through the windscreen.

news.sky.com/story/amp/moment-chris-kabas-family-find-out-police-officer-could-face-criminal-charges-over-fatal-shooting-12845389

I surprised no one seems to have heard of it.