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Original poster

Police shoot pregnant woman dead (USA)

999 replies

SuddenlyOld · 02/09/2023 07:35

Ok America, since when did it become normal for police officers to point guns at pregnant women accused of shoplifting?
She didn't have a weapon or get violent. Turns out she hadn't stolen anything either.
If I was black in America I'd be scared to go out 😪😪😪
This is probably the worst thing I've seen ever.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-66690408

Footage of police with guns drawn

Bodycam video shows Ohio police fatally shooting pregnant black woman

Ta'Kiya Young, 21, appears to advance the car towards an Ohio officer before a single shot is fired.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-66690408

OP posts:
Thread gallery
19
Stressedafff · 02/09/2023 09:51

loislovesstewie · 02/09/2023 09:50

If she did nothing then comply. I don't know whether she is innocent or not. BUT not complying won't end well. And if the law says she can be arrested then that is what happens.

But she wasn’t arrested, she was shot dead.

Towdalinenow · 02/09/2023 09:51

@loislovesstewie it could be a human urge to run though - some will run and some will freeze. It’s not really something you can control in the moment. I don’t think you would know how you’d react until you’re in the situation.

smilesup · 02/09/2023 09:53

Wanderingowl · 02/09/2023 09:39

I don't think any of them were pregnant but Jastine Diamond, Melissa Perez, Valentina Orellana-Peralta and Jamie Feith were all white women or girls shot dead by American police in the last few years. Perez and Feith were acting dangerously, Jastine Diamond and Valentina Orellana-Peralta were both completely innocent. There is a clear 'culture war' narrative in the way the deaths of people who are shot by police in the US are reported on. And dead white women don't fit into it, so they don't become so widely known.

The problem is that the police in the US genuinely fear for their lives on an ongoing basis. Last year alone 64 officers were shot to death and 56 were killed by vehicles. They are killed during traffic stops, domestic violence call outs, disturbance call outs, while making arrests. They are even routinely ambushed and taken by surprise. And those numbers, 120 deaths in a year, are just the shootings and accidents where they die. Many, many more are left with severe injuries. There is no doubt that racism is still a big issue and a major part of the problem. But there is so, so, so much more to it than all bastard cops being trigger happy with black people. And as long as people focus on one aspect of a much, much bigger issue, things will only get worse, not better.

Show quote history

White people are killed by the US in America. Mainly poor white people but still white people. The black people are killed by police at more than &double the rate per head of population. Department,

From the office of Statistics from Aug 1, 2023 "The rate of fatal police shootings in the United States shows large differences based on ethnicity. Among Black Americans, the rate of fatal police shootings between 2015 and July 2023 stood at 5.8 per million of the population per year, while for White Americans, the rate stood at 2.3 fatal police shootings per million of the population per year."

saffronsoup · 02/09/2023 09:53

Apparently the names and faces of the officers were redacted and are being withheld as they are "victims of assault'.

There are a lot of stories going around so I don't know what is fact but I read one story that says she had taken 2 bottles of alcohol but when confronted before leaving the store, she put them down and left the store without them.

Mummyoflittledragon · 02/09/2023 09:53

Iwantcakeeveryday · 02/09/2023 09:39

because maybe they'll kneel on your chest and kill you. That's why.

Show quote history

Even more dangerous when heavily pregnant with reduced lung capacity. And that’s even if they don’t slam you to the floor injuring your baby.

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 02/09/2023 09:53

Ok maybe I would have no chance of hitting a target.

I would absolutely expect a police officer with training to be able to shoot out a tyre he's virtually standing over.

There is no excuse

loislovesstewie · 02/09/2023 09:54

Right, I don't live in the US and really would NOT visit. But if you do and you know that police carry guns, that they can stop you, might well shoot you, why not comply? Yes, I get that people panic. But how many times a day are people stopped and nothing happens?j

herewegoroundthebastardbush · 02/09/2023 09:56

loislovesstewie · 02/09/2023 09:50

If she did nothing then comply. I don't know whether she is innocent or not. BUT not complying won't end well. And if the law says she can be arrested then that is what happens.

She wasn't arrested. She was shot dead. What do you think (unarmed) UK police would have done in this situation? Why couldn't they do that?

Whether she shoplifted or not is totally irrelevant. Petty theft should be prosecuted proportionately. They could have taken her plates, followed her, called for backup and intercepted her en route, or used her registration info to arrest her at home. So many things they could have done. But their egos could not permit her defiance, her defiance gave them permission in their minds to kill her. For shoplifting and cheek basically. How many UK teens would be dead right now for the same crimes? Would it be fine and dandy if it were our young people being murdered in parking lots for nicking beer and giving lip?

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 02/09/2023 09:56

gillygeey · 02/09/2023 09:24

Event heard of proportionate response? Risk assessment?

I really don't understand these comments. Because of the gun culture the risk assessment is the perpetrator is likely to have a weapon & their proportionate response is completely different to ours.
Obviously the women should not have been shot but this will keep happening when you have a gun culture like the US.

I'm pretty sure it as a white woman had I been the driver of that vehicle the risk assessment and therefore response would have turned out very, very differently

I get gun culture makes it different to the uk but you if your first instinct is gun ready every time you shouldn't have a weapon

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 02/09/2023 09:56

Balhammom · 02/09/2023 09:24

I really don’t understand a lot of these replies. It is exceptionally rare for someone who stops, listens and does as the police tell them to come to harm. If she hadn’t been shoplifting, I’m pretty confident it could have been resolved quite quickly.

Instead this woman drove at a police officer. The consequences of doing so are entirely obviously, particularly in the US. The onus isn’t on the police to run out of the way.

  1. It's not exceptionally rare in America for compliant people to be executed by the police if they're black.

  2. She didn't "drive at" the police officer. If you watch the videos properly the officer is standing towards the left of the vehicle and the wheels are point to the right, the care moves about 12-15 inches before she was murdered. Even if she had been driving off she was not driving at the officer.

  3. The onus should 100% be on the police officer to move out the way. Anything else just stupid. If a 1-2t lump of metal is moving towards you, you get out of the way. Standing in front of it and murdering the person in control of it will only increase your chance of being hit.

  4. Police are not judges or jury's or executioners (despite what most of them seem to think). They do not have the training, and in most cases the intelligence, to decide on someone's innocence or guilt on the spot. Their job is to apprehended not murder.

  5. Shoplifting is not a capital crime, failure to comply is not a capital crime, even injuring a police officer is not a capital crime. Under no circumstances in this situation should the innocent (and she was innocent until proven otherwise) woman have been executed.

grmsk · 02/09/2023 09:56

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Goldenbear · 02/09/2023 09:58

loislovesstewie · 02/09/2023 09:46

So, the answer is that the police arrest/stop no one? Welcome to a place where anarchy reigns. What I find so amazing is that no one wants to be a victim of crime, no matter who they are, no matter where they live. There have been threads on here, recently where people are baying for the return of the death penalty, harsh sentences etc, but a police officer tries to stop a suspect and no one wants that.
I wonder how many times arrests take place with no issues because the suspect just complies? How many times does it go wrong? And if so why? Every one I have seen , the suspect tries to run.

Ridiculous statement - it is common sense that you do not shoot dead someone you suspect of shoplifting! How the hell did you reach that conclusion?

herewegoroundthebastardbush · 02/09/2023 09:59

loislovesstewie · 02/09/2023 09:54

Right, I don't live in the US and really would NOT visit. But if you do and you know that police carry guns, that they can stop you, might well shoot you, why not comply? Yes, I get that people panic. But how many times a day are people stopped and nothing happens?j

how many times a day are people stopped and nothing happens?

A damn lot more often if you're black.

Your argument is a bit like saying that the women in Iran who defy the hijab and get beaten up by modesty police are "asking for it" because they know what could happen.

Do you know most black people in the US have to "train" their young kids how to respond to the police to avoid the situation escalating and them getting killed?

If you can get me even ONE instance of a pregnant white girl being shot dead at point blank range by the police, for ANY suspected or known crime, I'll be amazed. We'd all already know about it because it would have been an international scandal.

DisquietintheRanks · 02/09/2023 09:59

Race baiting? Hmm

In the UK the police apprehend people every day without having a gun, let alone drawing and shooting one.

cakeorwine · 02/09/2023 10:00

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If you can't understand why the shooting of a black woman in a car is in the news and then you complain about race baiting in the media, I suggest that says something about you and your biases.

Oioicaptain · 02/09/2023 10:00

American Cops are so trigger happy, but then when a large proportion of the population carry guns, it's inevitable that they are twitchy and react very aggressively. He reacted to her driving into him. They probably wouldn't have been able to see that she was pregnant. Her pregnancy would have made her feel more vulnerable and she may have feared that her kids would become involved if arrested etc or just felt very afraid. It's very heavy handed to point a gun at a lady accused of shop lifting. Sadly, had she stopped the car instead of moved it and tried to get away the outcome would have been different.

gillygeey · 02/09/2023 10:02

I'm pretty sure it as a white woman had I been the driver of that vehicle the risk assessment and therefore response would have turned out very, very differently

I wouldn't be too sure tbh. Yes as a white women your chances of getting shot would be lower than a black women but they wouldn't be zero.

I get gun culture makes it different to the uk but you if your first instinct is gun ready every time you shouldn't have a weapon

Of course that's the instinct because the person you are challenging may have a gun!

7eleven · 02/09/2023 10:04

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You need to go put yourself in the bin.

gillygeey · 02/09/2023 10:04

In the UK the police apprehend people every day without having a gun, let alone drawing and shooting one

And you genuinely don't think it would be different if the general public carried handguns?

Towdalinenow · 02/09/2023 10:04

Ok I’ve just watched the video and there is absolutely no justification for the shooting.

She was no risk to those police officers. Her car was rolling forward slowly, she was not aggressive at all.

Absolute bastard. How dare he take two precious lives for no reason at all.

I hope the people rise up over this. Black Americans don’t have equal rights yet.

I have no respect for this country if nothing happens following this act of violence.

Viewfrommyhouse · 02/09/2023 10:05

RandomMess · 02/09/2023 08:10

She asked why, and they never actually even answered her question.

Defence will include - I thought she had a firearm/she appeared to reach for a firearm.

SadAngry

They did. The policeman said 'they say you stole stuff'. Not that any of their actions are excusable. This is horrific.

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 02/09/2023 10:05

Surely the initial officer at the window could of spoken to her calmly, asked for her ID etc. She put the window down and spoke to him. She was obviously willing to communicate. The rapid escalation is due to the officers actions.

//

This

It's 100% on the officer's to descalate

If they feared being hit by the car they then move. You don't fire a gun at someone's upper body/face on the car. There only one way that's going to end

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 02/09/2023 10:06

Strange that Ohio police officer were able to arrest Chad Doerman alive, you know that armed white man who had just hunted down and executed his 3 children in cold blood, but couldn't arrest a 21 year old pregnant woman accused of shoplifting.

SerendipityJane · 02/09/2023 10:06

I wonder how this would play out in states that have tried to make foetuses people so mothers can be charged with murder for abortion ? Especially when their premise is the foetus is innocent ? Presumably that makes the officer a murderer ?

IClaudine · 02/09/2023 10:07

Sadly, had she stopped the car instead of moved it and tried to get away the outcome would have been different

Not necessarily. Ta'Kiya Young is not responsible for her own murder.