To think anything I did was also his fault?

[Naomi189]

I'm about a year into recovering from my DH having an affair. We stayed together, and there's been generally good progress but we keep having the same argument and I get insanely angry when we have it and I just want to know AIBU.

After he cheated, for the first couple of months I was fairly calm. I was devastated, but I wasn't chucking his clothes out of windows or screaming and shouting.

The first 12 weeks was hell, but in a lot of ways we were closer than ever before and I felt like it would be a lot road but we'd recover from it. We'd been to counselling and attended an online infidelity course and things had been really positive.

One thing drilled into him was the need for total honesty going forwards. During that period, he met the OW for drinks to give her "closure" he felt she "deserved", after he'd expressly promised not to speak to her ever again.

To me, that was actually worse than the affair itself and I went absolutely postal, chucked him out, went on Tinder, got insanely drunk and gave a random date a blow job in the garden and texted DH to tell him.

I'm not proud of that, but he'd had an affair that went on for months and while I was in the process of giving him an opportunity to make amends (and while he'd seen me clearly devastated), he betrayed me again.

So we got through it all eventually, but now as we're trying to do the work on the affair, he keeps banhing on about how I "hurt him too" and how much what I did, damaged HIM.

To which I roll my eyes, go absolutely postal again and tell him HE is responsible for his affair and breaking our marriage and HE is responsible for betraying me again when I was devastated and therefore HE is responsible for any fallout or consequences.

He says I need to take responsibility and just because he screwed someone else 50 times while I was home cooking his dinner, that I still had "choices" and didn't need to behave in ways to deliberately hurt him.

I think I have absolutely zero responsibility for damaging our relationship and that he's lucky I didn't do worse.

Am I wrong here?

Largely we are doing well, but he just will NOT stop bringing this up during arguments which they turn very ugly because it feels like he's trying to act like I'm to blame for reacting to his shit behaviour.

I feel really sorry that this is all you can think to do, instead of having some respect for the time & input from posters who genuinely felt for you.

@Naomi189
It happens on loads of threads. No-one's singling you out.

Some people like an argument. Others like to share their experience. That's MN for you...

@EarringsandLipstick

All children deal with emotional harm or hurt of some kind through their childhood - this thread is very specifically about awful families (described as "Abusive") you have survived. This is what it says on it's own introduction:

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parent?s behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

You are basically just vastly gaslighting me now to try and dig your way out of this.

She called my house a "house of horrors." Verbatim. you have seen that with your own eyes.

She said my family was "all very stately homes" and above is a description from the thread of what the thread is for.

And you are accusing ME of being spiteful for defending my family against these absolutely outrageous bull shit accusations?

Get help for God's sake!

@EarringsandLipstick

Oh do me a favour. You are not putting in time to help me. As several posters have pointed out this entire thread is one long chain of projection, gaslighting, slut shaming, inventions and abuse.

You are putting in time because you fancy a row, and you really don't mind if what you're actually doing right now is telling a woman who's recovering from her husbands affair pretty vile, utterly unfounded things and while several posters have called it out for the shithousery it is - you refuse to accept it.

Shame on you.

Find elsewhere to invest your time.

@ImNotWorthy I assume lots of sad little people very miserable in their own lives trying to get kicks out of trolling.

@KajsaKavat

I don't blamed the OW. I just think she's a vile human being. This entire thread is me blaming my husband.

But if you want to defend the OW she has a new married man now, so his wife will be along shortly!

You're really not a pleasant person. I took the time, stupidly, to share deeply personal experiences in an effort to help. I empathised with you, tried to be respectful of your choices & wished you well, repeatedly.

Is that a sign of me being over-invested? Perhaps.

But I genuinely meant well & was absolutely not, at any point, looking for an argument.

I was on MN a lot today as I was off work sick & trying to rest but couldn't sleep.

It's appalling that you've mocked, insulted & twisted the intentions of posters, me included, who wished to help.

What a nasty post to direct at me.

As several posters have pointed out this entire thread is one long chain of projection, gaslighting, slut shaming, inventions and abuse.

And do me a favour - stop describing a thread on an internet forum in those terms which actually mean something to those of us who've endured an abusive relationship.

Grow up.

And finally, from your own post:

It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parent?s behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

That's also what the Stately Homes thread covers. This could be abuse. Or it could be harm exacted by parents to children, not ensuring they are emotionally safe.

Which, sadly (and not due to your behaviour, but your H's) is where your children find themselves

(And so you are clear I'm not blaming you, so did mine, until I got out)

Oh do spare me the victim act @EarringsandLipstick . It's been pointed out several times by users here that the stuff about my kids is way out of line, and I myself have expressed how deeply upsetting I find it, yet several pages later you're still pushing it and then gaslighting the hell out of me by pretending I have misunderstood people's literal words. Maybe go away and have a think about saying things about people's children without any factual basis. It's pretty nasty stuff.

Usually, a MN thread is begun by someone asking for advice. Posters respond in many ways, including offering advice, often based on their own experience, which any OP is of course free to ignore.

As I say, there are two sorts of people on MN, ones who argue, and ones who discuss.

The nastiness resides purely with you.

I can only hope you're writing such vile stuff due to your own distress, and that's being charitable.

Imagine being this horrible to someone who's experienced abuse, shares that with you to help, and continues to make clear you're not being blamed?

Even regarding your DC, who are absolutely in a toxic environment, I was careful to say that mine were too, which ultimately was my motivation to act.

I'd like to wish you well but I already have, for you to throw it back at me.

Lol at your delusion…. You are the most bitter person I’ve ever come across…

@EarringsandLipstick You are, on the thread of a person who you are claiming vehemently is a victim of abuse, and who is certainly posting about a very, very distressing life situation. Several posters have said it's a disgrace to keep pushing this mad stuff about my kids, and I myself (the subject of the thread) have said I found it extremely distressing for several pages now. You have decided to carry on doing it. Actually, you have decided to escalate it. Going on and on and on and on. Denying the evidence of my eyes to me when I have shown you (which is literal gaslighting) and now you're a victim of abuse and I am being nasty to you?

I’m really sorry to read all your posts OP. You’ve clearly been hurt and are still very angry, very understandably so.

It is admirable you are working so hard to save your marriage, but I have to ask why? Is it because you love your DH and can’t live without him, because you want to observe your vows, or for the sake of the children? Because I wonder if all this heartache is worth it.

Going back to your question, I do think you are responsible for your own actions. Yes they came from a place of pain and revenge, but no one forced you to do it and you did it deliberately to hurt your husband. Imagine it’s physical abuse instead - it’s the classic defence of “look what you made me do”.

Now what you did is no where near comparable to your husband’s, because it didn’t involve the deceit and strictly speaking you were separated at the time so I don’t necessarily see your actions as betrayal but rather revenge. But you still chose to hurt him in that way.

That said, he needs to stop going on about it and understand the two are very different things, rather than focus on the what aboutery to make himself less guilty. But it does sound like too much damage has been done on your side for this relationship to be worth it.

@KajsaKavat

I think you sound bitter actually. Likely an OW yourself by the sound of it. Get dumped for the wife did you?

Ok, this is my final word on this batshit thread.

I am not going on about 'abuse' of your DC. I never said it once, nor did others.

I have simply responded to you going on, ever more hysterically and with increasing hyperbole, about it being said your DC are abuse victims. It is you who is keeping it going.

I hope the vitriol you've directed at posters trying to help is easing your distress. You've behaved awfully here.

I'll leave you to it.

I read the whole thread very carefully and what I saw was a lot of women who spent quite a bit of time carefully attending to OP’s story snd sharing their own hard won experience to help her move on with grace and confidence, however she chooses to do so.

The problem Op is facing arises from putting her heroic revenge story (how I got back at my husband for breaking his word to me a second time by giving a stranger a blow job in the garden and then texting him) in AIBU and then confusing everyone by couching the question as being about responsibility or agency or contributory negligence or something.

Its not a simple question, not a yes/no question. Its a moral and philosophical question. And posters gave it their all—sincerely curious, sympathetic, disgusted, puzzled. The pages of posts are not evidence of hostility but care and concern (for the most part), I think.

At any rate OP got her answer: some think it is not in fact reasonable to blame others for your own acts (BJ) though their previous acts may have created the condition for OP’s act. Others interpret the question a little differently and come to the conclusion that OP is only human do its not unreasonable for her to act out sexually to rebalance some imaginary scale of Justice. She likes those posters who encourage her to praise her courage in attacking back and showing her DH how much he hurt her. Or even going further and wounding his masculine pride—not just demonstrating hurt but inflicting it.

Is that really useful to OP or her marriage? Does Tit for Tat really work as an educational strategy?

As for me I think the very question AIBU/NBU is besides the point and ultimately futile. Not because I’m in the husbands side (like a lot of posters I would have left) But because I think this approach is harmful to OP.

Anyway, I have to touch type this on my phone and I think given how aggressive snd hostile OP has been towards those of us who generously gave our time and consideration I will save my breath to cool my porridge.

I wish you and your little family all the best, OP.

@EarringsandLipstick

And do me a favour - stop describing a thread on an internet forum in those terms which actually mean something to those of us who've endured an abusive relationship

Several posters have describe the thread in those terms. Highlighting the specific behavior of implying my kids were being somehow neglected as the worst of it. You just appear to be incapable of taking it on board.

I'll also remind you that you spent some hours trying to tell me I was also in an abusive relationship and just couldn't realise it or accept it and now you've changed your tune quite a bit!

Haha I have zero interest in men so no thanks you can keep your cheating man all to yourself, or share him as that’s the type of man you’ve chosen… 🙄

I think you should drop your therapist though and find a better one because you are a loooong way from actually getting better in so very many counts…

im not coming back to this thread, I think you’ve lost if altogether

OP, you need help.

This thread has gone mad. I'd really think about ending your marriage if I were you as I don't think it could make you more miserable and angry.

I understand your anger towards your husband but the attitude to EarringsandLipstick is horrible to read.

As I say, there are two sorts of people on MN, ones who argue, and ones who discuss.

Reposted with added emphasis. Which are you, OP?

@Naomi189

Google "playing chess with pigeons"

Then stop giving the goady posters what they want. Don't defend yourself, don't engage, it's just more attention for them to respond too.

Done.

Back to the topic in hand, I think you should ask yourself a few questions. If this works out with DH, fine. But if it doesn't, be prepared.

How long are you going to give him to address this deflection of his actions?

What would divorce look like? Are you financially secure?

Can you imagine being a single parent? Can you imagine dating again? Logistically how would things work for you?

What would you advise your best friend, if she was in your situation?

@DinaofCloud9

Several poster, SEVERAL, have clearly pointed out the atrocious behavior by posters on this thread which beggars belief. It is not just me, it is many people who have said this.

This thread is not about my children. I have deliberately not mentioned them and deliberately said I didn't want to talk about them on these pages. These matters are very private to me.

Based on absolutely zero evidence to support my children being neglected in any way, several people have felt the need to drag my children into the conversation and make numerous assumptions for which they have no factual basis and which range from offensive to outright horrific.

Calling someone's home a "house of horrors" and saying their kids will end up on the stately homes thread (which is for adult survivors of abusive homes of some kind) is a disgusting, disgusting, disgusting thing to say unless you have iron clad evidence to believe those statements are accurate.

Spending several pages defending it and gaslighting the victim of it is also absolutely disgusting. As is playing the victim after the fact (which a few people are very good here).

There is a poster slightly upthread who's posted several but we are only trying to help butter-wouldn't-melt-in-her-mouth comments implying she's tried to be kind, when in reality - if you look a little further upthread this same person has made up some complete nonsense about me drinking, shouting and bringing random men back to my house with my kids there. Utter, offensive nonsense she has completely made up.

These people are complete phonies and they are not trying to help. You do not help people who have been cheated on by implying that they're not caring for their children or spending pages and pages telling them you know better how they feel than they do.

At the very least, if someone is going through a distressing time and they are outright telling you they are finding your behavior upsetting and your words offensive then you should respect their boundaries and stop.

This is just people letting off gas. It's for their benefit, certainly not for mine. And if you find anything "horrible to read", it should be the absolute nonsense that's been targeted at me - rather than me defending myself.