To think anything I did was also his fault?

[Naomi189]

I'm about a year into recovering from my DH having an affair. We stayed together, and there's been generally good progress but we keep having the same argument and I get insanely angry when we have it and I just want to know AIBU.

After he cheated, for the first couple of months I was fairly calm. I was devastated, but I wasn't chucking his clothes out of windows or screaming and shouting.

The first 12 weeks was hell, but in a lot of ways we were closer than ever before and I felt like it would be a lot road but we'd recover from it. We'd been to counselling and attended an online infidelity course and things had been really positive.

One thing drilled into him was the need for total honesty going forwards. During that period, he met the OW for drinks to give her "closure" he felt she "deserved", after he'd expressly promised not to speak to her ever again.

To me, that was actually worse than the affair itself and I went absolutely postal, chucked him out, went on Tinder, got insanely drunk and gave a random date a blow job in the garden and texted DH to tell him.

I'm not proud of that, but he'd had an affair that went on for months and while I was in the process of giving him an opportunity to make amends (and while he'd seen me clearly devastated), he betrayed me again.

So we got through it all eventually, but now as we're trying to do the work on the affair, he keeps banhing on about how I "hurt him too" and how much what I did, damaged HIM.

To which I roll my eyes, go absolutely postal again and tell him HE is responsible for his affair and breaking our marriage and HE is responsible for betraying me again when I was devastated and therefore HE is responsible for any fallout or consequences.

He says I need to take responsibility and just because he screwed someone else 50 times while I was home cooking his dinner, that I still had "choices" and didn't need to behave in ways to deliberately hurt him.

I think I have absolutely zero responsibility for damaging our relationship and that he's lucky I didn't do worse.

Am I wrong here?

Largely we are doing well, but he just will NOT stop bringing this up during arguments which they turn very ugly because it feels like he's trying to act like I'm to blame for reacting to his shit behaviour.

@EarringsandLipstick I don't really feel like talking in depth about things on this thread, given the way people have behaved continually. I did read your posts and appreciate them and will think about them.

I've explained it. If you scroll back to see.

@Chantholtmouse aren't you a piece of work!! What a vile posts.
Why on earth would you come on here, and post anything at all. The OP came here for advice, after being through one of the most horrendous things one can go through. And this is your response. I agree with the OP, I hope you don't have children, we need less people in the world like you, not more.

Vicious.

HTH.

@Humanswarm

I think you came on here looking for answers but I'm not sure there is one

I think actually what's interesting, as @ChristmasCrumpet pointed out is that a lot of people on here have been pretty abusive, and while that wasn't a very good reflection on them as human beings it was actually helpful as it make me see that I KNOW that IANBU and I really DGAF if he or anyone else thinks I am.

There's some other daft poster above you somewhere trying to tell me I have low self esteem and don't love myself. She couldn't be more wrong. I think I am great. I think I am a great, kind, honest, loving, loyal, clever, resilient person who's approached (from the outset) his shit behavior by trying to fix and repair the damage done to me and us.

I see pretty clearly now that he either takes complete and full responsibility for everything he did and the entire butterfly effect of everything from that, or I am perfectly happy to leave and let him carry on his pity party by himself.

I get that you have to show care too. And I genuinely believe you have done that in bucket loads

Yes I have, and were he here he'd tell you I was the best wife in the world and that none of this is a "me" problem. I work (ed) hard to be a good wife and Mum. Sacrificed a lot. Put everyone else first, always had a smile and a kind word and support and encouragement and he's had a heap of kindness from me when he least deserved it. Some people here imply that is weakness. They're wrong. It really isn't. It's a core of steel in me.

I do believe he loves you. I also know from experience that love isn't always enough

I absolutely know he loves me. I also know he doesn't have very good skills at loving and that he might (right now) be too lost in self pity and self loathing to learn to be better at it (which is in itself a form of selfishness). I will always love my husband. He is a flawed and yet amazing person, but I accept maybe he has damaged things too much for repair.

I am not going to put an ultimatum on things. I am not in any rush with things. I will talk to him when we next have time alone and let him know where I am at and then give things time to percolate. If I do leave, it won't be with any fanfare and door slamming. It'll be peaceful and kind.

I just want to say, before I bow out, that I am so sorry you've dealt with so much absolute shit on here today. You have responded eloquently and been dignified throughout

This is really kind, thank you.

I only hope that I am half the woman you appear to be

I am sure you are twice that!

I'll end on..this is your life. Yours. Whatever you do, make the choice with your happiness, however remote it might be, at the forefront of your mind. Not his. Not even the children's

Thank you. Whatever I will do will be what's right. There might be a lot of pain, but there's also a lot of love in our house and those suggesting we'd have an acrimonious divorce don't know us at all.

@Chantholtmouse

You should be done for public indecency and I doubt "I was upset because my husband had an affair" would stand up in court

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !!! Nutter.

Expecting him to take responsibility for your drunken escapades is no more reasonable than him asking you to take responsibility for his affair.

You are both adults and need to take responsibility for your own behaviour here.

Personally I think it is a waste of time trying to save this marriage. You seem to want his utter capitulation and he is trying to use your poor behaviour to escape full responsibility for his own. All rather toxic to me.

There's some other daft poster above you somewhere trying to tell me I have low self esteem and don't love myself. She couldn't be more wrong. I think I am great. I think I am a great, kind, honest, loving, loyal, clever, resilient person who's approached (from the outset) his shit behavior by trying to fix and repair the damage done to me and us

I see I’ve touched a nerve here OP, of course you know how comfortable you are in your own skin, but your posts don’t look like the words of a woman who is happy and confident in herself.

That's completely fair enough.

I'm sorry parts of the thread have been hard for you.

I really hope some perspectives have helped. FWIW, I think you are amazing to be surviving this & I really hope the way ahead becomes easier 💐

@SilverCatStripes This is an interesting system you have here silver. So you decide things about people you have never met, and if they don't agree your opinion is correct, it's not because you're wrong - it's because you have "touched a nerve"?

That leaves very little room for your judgements on people you have never met to not be 100% accurate doesn't it?

You (who has never even met me) do not know me better than I know myself or better than the therapist I have been seeing for over a year knows me. I have been identified in that process as having unusually high levels of self esteem, based on a very secure childhood and healthy life patterns. It's a topic we have explored at length.

I felt worthless for a brief time when my husband fucked someone else. As literally anybody would. This isn't a statement about me or how much I love myself. What I did was stood up, dusted myself off and realised anything he did or didn't do means absolutely zero in terms of my self-worth.

You are talking rubbish :) You just want to believe any woman who has been cheated on and stayed must have low self esteem. That's coming from you, not me. It's certainly not my view at all.

Some of you on here have some very low opinions of women and want to cast us into these victim roles and stereotypes like from a terrible daytime film. My husband has low self-esteem. He's working on that in therapy. That's why HE is the cheater who can't take responsibility for himself, and I am the one who doesn't need anyone to validate me.

I am basing my opinion on what you have posted, everything I have concluded is from your own words- Is that not why you started the thread ,to get different opinions on your situation?

My posts haven’t been rude or nasty, so why so defensive?

I’ve read most of the thread and I honestly don’t think this relationship is worth all this absolute angst. You sound fucking miserable and angry as hell.

And all this stuff about his low self esteem, avoidance issues etc blah blah. It’s all nonsense. People of every kind of personality you can name cheat because they can get away with being selfish for a bit, and they’re only sorry when they get caught. It’s not anything that needs years of navel gazing to work out.

I admire you for wanting to give things a second chance, but if he can’t even acknowledge that you having a drunken, cry-for-help fumble isn’t the same as his repeated infidelity and lies…really, what is the point? Why are you putting yourself through this?

I read the whole thread carefully and I’m sure what I have to say will be given all the consideration that other thoughtful posts have been given which is to say: none at all.

OP wrote the post to explain that her husband was a cheating, manipulative, lying, person whose behavior had driven her to distraction and to giving a stranger a blow job.

She was quite explicit in letting us know that no thoughts about this situation would be entertained if the comment didn’t track with OP’s belief that 1) everything bad in the marriage is the result of the husband’s bad acts and 2) all of her own acts only produce good. her acts are either not bad or those who get hurt deserve it.

I think OPs husband did a very bad thing by cheating in her. I don’t care at all about the morality or wisdom of the BJ in the garden.

But will OP accept this support of her position? No, probably not, because its too tepid. It doesn’t celebrate OP or excoriate the husband. And this was all set up to pump up op’s wounded ego.

OP you can’t put the spilled milk back in the bottle. You can’t make your dh accept the blame and become aware like you want. It’s horrible and unfair but oh well life is unfair. Your husband cheated on you and you gave a rich stranger a blow job and there’s no justice. In fact far from strengthening your hand the BJ just liberated your dh from his guilt.

You are going to keep wallowing in this pain and rage and shame until you walk away and stop fighting to keep ownerships of your cheating dh. No honest, adult, woman could tell you otherwise because its not reality to pretend that you can make a solid marriage out of all this rage and spite.

whoever said upthread that this was all very “stately homes” (From the perspective of the children) was right. For everyone’s sake split up this house of horrors or do some serious individual therapy to achieve clarity about your real feelings and goals.

@SilverCatStripes

Why are you deflecting your mistake (making incorrect judgements on me and refusing to accept you were wrong when told politely several times) by trying to turn it around to ME being "defensive" rather than you being a bit of a knob?

>> You (a stranger) made statements about me that I know to be incorrect. As I have explained, I have ascertained with a very well qualified professional that I have spent more than 60 hours with that the complete opposite of what you are saying is true

>> I politely (twice) said you were incorrect

>> At this juncture it would have been appropriate to either apologise or drop it, but no, you still refused to accept this and went in for a third time

>> You then patronised me (implying I can't have any self esteem because I haven't lived my life the way you deem to be correct)

>> You then tried to imply that my feelings about myself on the day I found out my husband cheated are indicative of a flaw in me that needed fixing

>> You then tried what's best described as the sort of teasing / goading my brother did when we were about 10 "Ooooh, did I hit a nerve?"

>> Then when I finally got cross and shut you down you say "why are you so defensive"?

It's all a bit age 12 isn't it? Is that how you speak to friends in real life?

OP, why are you attacking posters like @SilverCatStripes

You may not agree with her but I don't think she's been unfair or rude, and has made valid points - but you've had long posts dissecting her posts & being quite aggressive.

I repeat, I'm really sorry for what you're going through. But I'm a bit perplexed as to why you are being so reactionary to some posters, while not wanting to explore any of the other aspects to the situation (which is your right of course but just wonder what the point in being so angry with posters here is?)

@pikkumyy77

whoever said upthread that this was all very “stately homes” (From the perspective of the children) was right

The stately homes thread, which I have read for many years, is about child survivors of abusive families.

Can I politely ask, on what planet did you reach the conclusion that my children are being abused?

Literally, and I can't stress this enough, what the FUCK are you talking about?

Silver* wrote in either scenario your happiness starts with you learning to love yourself.*

You seem to have objected to this a lot, OP.

However, it's true. It's a much more profound statement than you seem to recognise.

Your H is responsible for everything. But how you react & move on is borne out of truly putting yourself first and not relying on someone else for your happiness.

I have certainly had to learn this - I'm not there yet, in fact. It's a slow process!

OP, I think the 'stately homes' comment could sound harsh.

But it doesn't also refer to intentionally abusive families.

It can relate to families where DC needs weren't met, by they primary caregivers, for whatever reason.

This is a possibility for your DC, sadly, as the marriage is dysfunctional and that has an impact.

It doesn't mean you are not trying to do your best for your DC.

@EarringsandLipstick

I am not attacking @SilverCatStripes.

This is how a normal conversation might go:

Person A: I think you have self esteem issues
Person B: No, that's not an issue for me
Person A: Are you sure? You seemed very upset the night you found out your husband betrayed you?
Person B: Yes, that's pretty normal actually. I am fine now on that front.
Person A: Great stuff.
Person B: Thanks for asking though

Instead this is how the conversation went:

Person A: I think you have self esteem issues
Person B: No, that's not an issue for me
Person A: I think you're mistaken, you DO have self esteem issues. No one could have made the choices you have made if they had self esteem! No one can love themselves if they put up with what you have put up with! Look at what you did!

Person B: (Ignores person A to avoid bothering arguing with a muppet)
Person A: (goes in for more despite being not responded to) You know you really DO have self esteem issues and don't love yourself.....the fact you can't admit it shows I have hit a nerve! 🙄
Person B: I have worked through this with a professional for over a year and have identified I have unusually high self esteem, now back off.
Person A: Waaahhh, why are you being so defensive!!!!

It's a cluster fuck of a thread.

You all just want to make up fictional stories or versions of who strangers are and then just demand they accept that and when they don't, start accusing them of having some character flaw rather than admitting maybe you are just being a judgemental twat on the internet.

Maybe YOU have low self esteem if you have a need to demand strangers on the internet take on your views about themselves? It seems very dysfunctional.

Op, you’re so so angry and unhappy. and it’s not about the responses on here. You’re lashing out hard. Looking for someone to kick.

it’s hard to correlate all this happiness in your home, your kids who are unaware, the joy he often makes you feel. The safety. The love. All this good stuff you keep telling us about. The staying because you love him so very much.

It’s hard to Correlate all that with the anger being displayed on here. The going postal at home. It’s contradictory and that’s what folks are pointing out.

the poster you keep attacking isn’t your enemy, they are not to blame.

Naomi189

I stand by my opinion. Nothing you have posted suggests you are a confident, happy, self- assured woman- quite the opposite in fact.

Anyway there is a lot of sensible advice on this thread, have a read through and reflect on what posters are trying to tell you.

@EarringsandLipstick

It's not a profound statement. It's a statement from a Facebook meme. I already do love myself and don't need to learn that. As I have said, several, several time now: I have spend more than 60 hours with a counsellor dissecting all this minutely. My key strengths have been identified as high self-esteem and optimism. Thank you though 👍

@SilverCatStripes I'm not surprised you stand by your opinion. There is nothing on this thread that suggests you have the capacity to know the limits of your own infinite genius :)

@Janieforever

Op, you’re so so angry and unhappy. and it’s not about the responses on here. You’re lashing out hard. Looking for someone to kick. The poster you keep attacking isn’t your enemy, they are not to blame

Oh lovely. You are so right. I am just looking to lash out! It's not that people are saying awful things and behaving like complete twats. It's me!

I want to directly thank you for some of the heartfelt comments you personally have added to this thread which really helped me to feel better. A couple of my favourites were:

This is one of the most dysfunctional and toxic things I’ve had the misfortune to read on here. Performing oral sex on some stranger in the garden as some form of revenge act, Christ, it doesn’t get much classier

That was your very first post. I want to that you for reaching out to slut shame me! I am so sorry if I reacted poorly to your kindness and support.

And your next comment was equally moving and heartfelt

youre so angry and refusing to accept any responsibility for the utter toxic shit show that’s your marriage. Even pretending the kids are protected, when you’re crying daily, shouting, getting drunk and blowing some random, even inviting them to your home.

Nothing says online support more than approaching a stranger who's husband has cheated to make up stories that her kids are unsafe, that she shouts and gets drunk and invites randoms into her home.

Thank you.

Thank you. I am sorry I have been less than able to take this heart warming feedback from lovely ladies like yourself without my bad attitude!