To think anything I did was also his fault?

[Naomi189]

I'm about a year into recovering from my DH having an affair. We stayed together, and there's been generally good progress but we keep having the same argument and I get insanely angry when we have it and I just want to know AIBU.

After he cheated, for the first couple of months I was fairly calm. I was devastated, but I wasn't chucking his clothes out of windows or screaming and shouting.

The first 12 weeks was hell, but in a lot of ways we were closer than ever before and I felt like it would be a lot road but we'd recover from it. We'd been to counselling and attended an online infidelity course and things had been really positive.

One thing drilled into him was the need for total honesty going forwards. During that period, he met the OW for drinks to give her "closure" he felt she "deserved", after he'd expressly promised not to speak to her ever again.

To me, that was actually worse than the affair itself and I went absolutely postal, chucked him out, went on Tinder, got insanely drunk and gave a random date a blow job in the garden and texted DH to tell him.

I'm not proud of that, but he'd had an affair that went on for months and while I was in the process of giving him an opportunity to make amends (and while he'd seen me clearly devastated), he betrayed me again.

So we got through it all eventually, but now as we're trying to do the work on the affair, he keeps banhing on about how I "hurt him too" and how much what I did, damaged HIM.

To which I roll my eyes, go absolutely postal again and tell him HE is responsible for his affair and breaking our marriage and HE is responsible for betraying me again when I was devastated and therefore HE is responsible for any fallout or consequences.

He says I need to take responsibility and just because he screwed someone else 50 times while I was home cooking his dinner, that I still had "choices" and didn't need to behave in ways to deliberately hurt him.

I think I have absolutely zero responsibility for damaging our relationship and that he's lucky I didn't do worse.

Am I wrong here?

Largely we are doing well, but he just will NOT stop bringing this up during arguments which they turn very ugly because it feels like he's trying to act like I'm to blame for reacting to his shit behaviour.

I am not going to waste my time answering though, due to the trolls on the thread who clearly have more interest in trying to kick me than be helpful. So I'll keep that information to myself and leave this thread alone.

It's a shame you don't think you can answer. I disagree with your point about 'trolls' - I really don't think there are trolls here, I have read nearly every post and I think while there are some who are being blunt, and focused on one particular aspect, most posters are trying to help and many are making very relevant points. But I don't think you are in a place to hear them.

Of course it's ok to leave the thread and this topic if it's not helping you. Maybe another thread in Relationships in the future might help - I honestly learned a lot and felt a lot of support from many threads there. 💐

@GilbertMarkham Thanks for everything you have posted 🌻

Because they exist, they are the most important thing, and they are in the middle of all this with no way out.

excellent post.

OP, he had an affair. You did a blow job in retaliation. (Did that guy think you were on a genuine date, by the way?). You need to own your behaviour because he didn't make you do that. You did it all by yourself. And all things considered, at some level it probably upset your DH. What shouldn't now be happening is him using that as a stick to beat you with. Consider his motivation. What is his focus on your BJ blocking? What's he avoiding dealing with?

Are you at a point where you can accept there were issues in the marriage that caused the affair? What part have you played? Are you both prepared to take blame or are you blaming each other, going round in circles? Are you both committed to the process or are you avoiding the upset and shame that comes with divorce?

@herewegoroundthebastardbush and OP hasn't come on here to speak about them, so why are people hell bent on calling her about them? Anyone commenting on them is just making up assumptions it's pathetic.

@Justanothercatlady thank you 💕

I also want to say about the DC, and I know this is hard to read. They will absolutely be affected by this. They will know more than you think. They may not know exactly what happened but they will feel the emotional fall-out and conflict, no matter how well you think you have hidden it.

This isn't to blame you but to really strongly encourage you to put them first.

My DC were 2, 4 and 6 when my marriage ended. The older two have really clear memories of things that happened that I would have sworn they were unaware of. They had also picked up on stuff their father was doing that I thought they were too young to perceive or know about.

Thankfully we have spoken about it and a decade has passed since where I have been able to address this.

No matter what you think your DC know and are affected. The only way to address this is appropriate honesty about the situation with them, and with yourself. Children need security and while you and your H are doing so much well, I'm sure, their emotional stability will be affected.

That's excellent, practical advice.

Thank you. I don't want to be all "won't somebody think of the children" but really, honestly, they are the ones who will be most deeply affected by the fallout of all this long term. The OP and her husband have choices; the children have none. So they should be front and centre of every conversation about what to do next and how imo.

Bottom line, sounds like you will keep flogging this dead horse until one of you finally has enough and walks away. Most likely when someone new arrives on the scene and one of you decides to be happy elsewhere. And if your DH gets there first (which sounds likely) you will go through all of this again...

@GilbertMarkham

People agree fidelity on conditions.
He broke the conditions.
She was therefore no longer obliged to fidelity

I am not sure why people are debating this. DH doesn't think I cheated. He knew the agreement we had. He doesn't think I did anything wrong even, he has said many times I was entitled to it and had he been in my shoes he would have left too.

What he wants is for me to be responsible for his pain. Which I don't think I am responsible for - he acted with agency knowing the consequences - but regardless I apologised that he was hurting and offered him reassurance.

He has even asked me to take responsibility for the hurt my anger has caused him. He has said things like "you are entitled to be angry but you have to take responsibility for the affect that anger has had on our relationship".

Which shows really how far his head is up his arse.

I don’t blame you at all for the blow job thing, but you are wasting your time with your husband, he’s not truly sorry because instead of understand that his actions led you to do that he’s using it as a way to get one over on you. “See you hurt me too!” “You betrayed me too!” “You’re not the only one who gets to be hurt”.

He’s a shit selfish partner, he lied to you and betrayed you for three years, then lied again one he was found out, and now he’s holding this blow job over you to try to minimise what’s he done and how that made you feel.

No amount of therapy, counselling and “time” is going to turn him into a good partner. You’re wasting your time and causing yourself more hurt, upset and stress by trying to fix something that can’t be fixed. You need a new husband, he can’t be changed, it’s who he is.

The OP and her husband have choices; the children have none. So they should be front and centre of every conversation about what to do next and how imo

I agree completely. And I say this as someone who has guilt, many times, about what my DC have experienced. So I am 100% not being preachy or 'know it all' to OP.

When I managed to get my H to leave, that was nearly the 'easiest' part - as in, I recognised I was at the point of a complete breakdown, and if he didn't go, I might actually have the breakdown and be incapable of looking after my DC.

However, it's 10 years on and that man has caused mayhem in our lives, and I have dealt with endless financial messes. I feel guilt all the time for what the DC don't have, as well as various situations which are less than ideal.

I'm saying all of this in case the OP reads the posts about her DC and thinks that we are posting from some vaulted positions of superiority. In my case at least, that's definitely not true.

But your point about the DC is one I've come back to again, and again. I haven't been able to do everything as I would have wished but fundamentally I have tried to put them first, and recognise they have no autonomy in the situation.

@EarringsandLipstick

I am sure they will be affected somehow by their father's affair. Unfortunately I wasn't given an option to avoid that.

What I know is that I do everything I am supposed to do. They do not see me cry, I do not drink, I do not go "out with the girls", I do not shout at their father or snip at him or criticise him. If anything HE is the moody one.

I smile and I make them their favourite dinners and get the fuck on with it.

So unless anyone has any reason to believe I am acting in some way to harm my children, it's immensely offensive to even suggest it.

I have never thought myself entitled to disgusting or unlawful actions in response to getting emotionally hurt.

What are you referring to .... "Disgusting or unlawful"?

Could you please explain.

He has said things like "you are entitled to be angry but you have to take responsibility for the affect that anger has had on our relationship".

OP, this is straight out of the Gaslighter's Textbook.

I know that that term is bandied about here far too easily. But this is what true gaslighting looks like, and it is abusive.

To me, that's at the core of this relationship - it's not even the infidelity.

It is that your H is emotionally abusing you and gaslighting you into some narrative about 'fault'. Rightly, you reject this. But then the conversation is fixed on 'fault' - yours / his / joint etc and not actually about what needs to be discussed.

My H did all of this. A classic one was 'you are the only person to make me feel like this and do [whatever shit piece of behaviour he was choosing to do at the time]. Honestly, it sounded plausible sometimes - that I was the problem, and all his poor behaviour was just a response to me, as he never behaved like this with anyone else.

This is not a good or honourable man OP. he is pushing and pushing so that YOU will end it with HIM. He doesn't want to be the 'person breaking up the marriage'. He wants it to be you, so that he can blame you.

This is all about abuse and control by him, rather than unfaithfulness.

If you genuinely want to stay together you have to make a pact not to bring up the others infidelity again. You will only be repeating the hurt and blame. This is hard at first but you will move on quicker than if you keep picking at the scab.

It is the only way to move on.

A perfect summary.

I would add that not only had he been using your actions when you found out he'd betrayed you again and felt the relationship was over to minimise/throw things back on you etc etc.

But also that he's harping on about it because it bothers him .... Which makes him a hypocrite and double standarded c*nt of the highest order.

He's ok with you having to deal with the thought of the sexual things he did repeated with his ow behind your back for months (years?) but he's not only dealing with one, not even penetrative sex, thing you did .... After you found out about his infidelity, after hed betrayed you again, and when you'd felt the relationship was over.

This is all going to end badly and you have the choice to end it now or next year or the year after.

Life is too bloody short to keep arguing over this - you are hurt, he says he is hurt, you say it is his fault he says you should take responsibility for your part in the situation.

I cannot see what either of you are getting out of this marriage and why you keep putting yourselves through all this.

*he's not on with dealing with

@herewegoroundthebastardbush

Temporarily separate from your husband. You're currently right in the trenches of enormous emotional upheaval. It doesn't matter how much you hold hands and smile, they know daddy made mummy cry for a month and left and came back, unless you've at least talked this through with them at some point in an age appropriate way that is massively destabilising. And they will feel the anger between you, the tension, and they will be awake at night pressing their ear to the door listening to you argue and feeling like their world is in terrible danger and they can do nothing to protect themselves (I have been that child, with parents who "kept their personal life private" ie waited until we were in bed to rip strips off each other). The relationship is not healthy (or you wouldn't be having the same fight every six weeks). It is not healthy for your children to be around it. He should move out, and you should continue to work on your relationship away from the family home, which should be a calm loving place without drama and mixed messages. You tell them that mummy and daddy still love them and still love each other but have some grown up things they need to work out between themselves just now

This is a completely made up scenario though. You've painted a picture that isn't anything like reality. My DH and I almost always go to bed laughing and cuddling. This is pure projection.

If I moved out my kids would be utterly fucking devastated! That would be the worst thing on earth for them unless I was sure it was permanent.

Please try and stick to facts because I understand you have seen films or read other threads so you make assumptions, but that really is NOT what our life is like or what is happening in our home.

OP, I promise I understand completely. I was the same. Outwardly and with my DC I was sure I was fine. That they were having a totally normal childhood, despite the fact that their father was abusing me (they didn't witness it bar one or two occasions), drinking heavily, spending every penny we had - because they didn't see or experience any of this, being very young.

I promise I'm not saying it to blame you - far from it. You sound like you are doing amazingly in a horrendous situation.

So unless anyone has any reason to believe I am acting in some way to harm my children, it's immensely offensive to even suggest it.

The thing is, it is harming them. It doesn't have to be overt. To give an example, to avoid my H post-alcoholic binges and corresponding hangover, I left the house every Saturday morning with my DC, about 1, 3, 5 then. The older two had swimming so that made sense, then we would go to the park, library, have lunch, potter places, and come home at 3 or so. H would up, dressed, happy to see them and we would all have a 'nice' meal together. It all seemed utterly normal and how could it have affected the DC?

They have told me since that they remember those Saturdays as being really sad, just aware of 'something' that created this day out every Saturday that was normal in one way but obviously because it was driven by a necessity to escape, wasn't really normal at all.

They just felt something; it doesn't have to be logical or need a lot of words around it.

You are not harming your DC, of course not. But you aren't giving them an emotionally secure environment - no, it's not your fault. It's your awful H's fault. But as @herewegoroundthebastardbush has said, you are the only one that can change it (your selfish H DGAF).

OP can I just say how well I think you've handled yourself on this thread against some of the responses you've had.

But you are incredibly angry. And you thinking that continuing to unleash that anger on him is exactly what he deserves and not your problem at all is why this relationship seems like it can't work.

Why put the both of you through it? If you can't get past the anger or at least see it as damaging to both of you, take some responsibility and try to change it, then you're just going to be stuck in this hellish scenario.

Otherwise you do just want to carry on punishing him and that's shit for both of you. It can't work.

You're entitled to feel everything you feel but if you feel the only way forward is you get to blame him for everything, even your own actions over and over while he should be prostrate at your feet and take everything you've got to give in anger and hurt and be grateful that you've even given him another chance, that's unhealthy and you become an abuser.

Which I don't think you want.