To think anything I did was also his fault?

[Naomi189]

I'm about a year into recovering from my DH having an affair. We stayed together, and there's been generally good progress but we keep having the same argument and I get insanely angry when we have it and I just want to know AIBU.

After he cheated, for the first couple of months I was fairly calm. I was devastated, but I wasn't chucking his clothes out of windows or screaming and shouting.

The first 12 weeks was hell, but in a lot of ways we were closer than ever before and I felt like it would be a lot road but we'd recover from it. We'd been to counselling and attended an online infidelity course and things had been really positive.

One thing drilled into him was the need for total honesty going forwards. During that period, he met the OW for drinks to give her "closure" he felt she "deserved", after he'd expressly promised not to speak to her ever again.

To me, that was actually worse than the affair itself and I went absolutely postal, chucked him out, went on Tinder, got insanely drunk and gave a random date a blow job in the garden and texted DH to tell him.

I'm not proud of that, but he'd had an affair that went on for months and while I was in the process of giving him an opportunity to make amends (and while he'd seen me clearly devastated), he betrayed me again.

So we got through it all eventually, but now as we're trying to do the work on the affair, he keeps banhing on about how I "hurt him too" and how much what I did, damaged HIM.

To which I roll my eyes, go absolutely postal again and tell him HE is responsible for his affair and breaking our marriage and HE is responsible for betraying me again when I was devastated and therefore HE is responsible for any fallout or consequences.

He says I need to take responsibility and just because he screwed someone else 50 times while I was home cooking his dinner, that I still had "choices" and didn't need to behave in ways to deliberately hurt him.

I think I have absolutely zero responsibility for damaging our relationship and that he's lucky I didn't do worse.

Am I wrong here?

Largely we are doing well, but he just will NOT stop bringing this up during arguments which they turn very ugly because it feels like he's trying to act like I'm to blame for reacting to his shit behaviour.

I don't think you can blame him for your actions, you need to take responsibility for that. But hurting people hurt, you need to show your H that you understand that you hurt him. And he needs to understand why. Then that action needs to be forgiven and moved on from. By you both, I understand why you did what you did and I think you hurt yourself too.
Your H should have told you he was going to see OW, if he had asked/told you how would you have reacted. Was it seeing her or not telling you that has hurt you so much.
You can get over an affair- I have.

@Goldbar

I disagree. The OP has made it clear that, as far as she was concerned, the relationship was over when she did this. She may have changed her mind later, but at the time this happened there was no relationship as such

Exactly. He had been told over and over again. He had been told in counselling. He had been told in writing. If he went near her ever again we were done. And that's the end of it.

If the wallies on here think they can make me feel ashamed they're barking up the wrong tree. They're amusing me if anything!

Yep

He's a long-term cheater.

He broke the main condition you agreed to stay with him on the basis of too.

Now he's harping on about what you did while you were broken up, as a result of his long-term cheating and in top of that, his second betrsyal/breaking your conditions.

That tells you all you need to know about his character.

Are you staying for kids?

Gosh, I don't think the two are comparable. And he sounds like a shit trying to deflect.

The bit I'm interested in what happened after the garden BJ and the solicitor visit. What made you change your mind to return to your marriage? How long were you single for between your H meeting the OW and you getting back together?

Some of these answers could inform what's going on with you and your H's reactions now.

My mistake - I didn't read that you weren't together at that point. Fill your boots then.

"Are you really equating an affair with a ONS whilst separated?

It does feel as if some pp have little understanding of the absolute heartbreak and devastation an affair causes, but are coping on to kick op anyway."

I understand completely, 100%, all too well how it feels, trust me on this. That is why it is frustrating.

You are 100% responsible for your own actions and choices.
However the responsibility for the relationship breakdown is not 50/50, it is far more his fault than yours.

If he went near her ever again we were done.

Well then you should have been done.

And I mean that in a supportive way. You're flogging a dead horse.

Fundamentally he prioritised him and her, after agreeing to/knowing that no further contact was your deal breaker for staying with him I spite of what he'd done.

What is that telling you?

Kindly, no questions are needed. All of the things you mention are just tinkering around the edges.

He promised he wouldn't see her again but did, knowing the implications and how it would hurt you.

He is using your one lapse of judgement against you.

It doesn't matter what your marriage was like before or what he says now because those things blow everything else out of the water.

Your marriage is already over but one of you needs to realise it.

The thread is difficult for sympathetic people who want to help because what can we say? You are right and he is wrong. He does not agree. You will keep having the argument or you will stop raising it and live with that enormous knowledge.

OP you asked what you should be doing for your children - in my opinion:

Temporarily separate from your husband. You're currently right in the trenches of enormous emotional upheaval. It doesn't matter how much you hold hands and smile, they know daddy made mummy cry for a month and left and came back, unless you've at least talked this through with them at some point in an age appropriate way that is massively destabilising. And they will feel the anger between you, the tension, and they will be awake at night pressing their ear to the door listening to you argue and feeling like their world is in terrible danger and they can do nothing to protect themselves (I have been that child, with parents who "kept their personal life private" ie waited until we were in bed to rip strips off each other). The relationship is not healthy (or you wouldn't be having the same fight every six weeks). It is not healthy for your children to be around it. He should move out, and you should continue to work on your relationship away from the family home, which should be a calm loving place without drama and mixed messages. You tell them that mummy and daddy still love them and still love each other but have some grown up things they need to work out between themselves just now.

Imo this temporary separation should lead to one of two things:

1. a divorce and permanent separation and a childcare sharing arrangement that puts the wellbeing of the children front and centre, not centred around who did what to who, who deserves what, or things being "equal" for the parents - what will work best for the kids. In an idea world neither of you would bring a new partner into the mix or have kids with anyone else for a good while if ever.

2. an agreement to peacefully cohabit, either as a married couple who have genuinely put all this behind them (very unlikely imo given the level of anger on your side and immaturity on his), or as co-parents who want to give their children stability and agree to see other people 100% separate to and outside of the family home. Who work together in a calm cordial fashion to give their kids the best possible life, and make plans for their own lives once the children leave home.

Fundamentally your husband has fucked up your kids' family, he is at fault. But you are the grown up in the room so unfortunately it falls to you to clean up the mess. It's not fair. But you can rant about that to your therapist, then get on with doing what must be done so your kids don't have to rant about it to theirs in 15 years time.

We are not all saying this.

I think most of us can see that your relationship isn’t going to work, you are far far too angry and he is bringing up how you hurt him which he just wouldn’t if he was a decent guy.
so what if he thinks you hurt him on purpose? It’s a minor thing compared…

but I think it annoys many of us when you try to blame him for you meeting up with tinder man, of course yoj can’t say that was his fault also asa natural consequence.
in no way am I saying it was wrong, I can totally understand why you would have wanted to do this and why not?!

either way I don’t think yoj will ever get passed the cheating.

Does it matter?? Who sucked whom? It sounds shite now!
If you have even a thread of decency and glimmer of sound mind then please divorce!
Otherwise, you're just a master of your own circus.

Though I imagine how the divorce would go with this lot... 🙄 The Lawyers will have a field day.
I do hope one of you will crack and will rather find themselves divorced&calm somewhere remote than carry on with this drama spectacle.

@herewegoroundthebastardbush

I also think your desire to blame him (however justified that is) is so powerful it is obscuring from you your obligation to your children

WHAT????? On what basis do you have any belief I am neglecting the needs or best interests of my children in any way, shape or form? Because I don't want to talk about them on a thread about my sex life? That I don't want to talk about them on a thread full of idiots accusing me of being a cheating slut that made me watch them suck someone off?

Screw you head on!

but I think it annoys many of us when you try to blame him for you meeting up with tinder man, of course yoj can’t say that was his fault also asa natural consequence.

I respectfully disagree.

His actions directly led to ops actions.

That was her response, other people might not have done that, other people might have done a lot more, we're all different, and we're all entitled to our individual responses to trauma, betrayal, pain, anger, devastation etc.

@herewegoroundthebastardbush

A question - you say after he met up with he'd again, you were determined that it was over, you had a fling, you filed for divorce. What changed your mind, made you decide to try again? He crossed your red line - how did it come back from that?

9 pages in and this is the first time someone has actually asked a sensible question to understand the situation rather than being more interested in projecting garbage they made up in their head. I am not going to waste my time answering though, due to the trolls on the thread who clearly have more interest in trying to kick me than be helpful. So I'll keep that information to myself and leave this thread alone.

Op, MN is a cluster fuck at the best of times but some threads really bring out the wankers.

Just ignore them or take a break if you need to.

You don't need this on top of the situation your h has put you in.

You have kids ... I feel for you.

He's thrown your relationship and your kids original family away. That's the bottom line.

Unfortunately he's not a rare specimen and maybe some decent mn'ers who've been through this can help you deal with this practically and emotionally. Maybe a new thread with a new username - with no BJ detail for the vultures (and the men who insist on posting on here); would be of use.

Split up the damage has been done the trust has been destroyed clearly you will hold this over him
For rest of his days and he will for you giving another bloke a bj.

Personally I would have left if my DH ever cheated on me it's game over no counselling no trying to move on damage has been done I would no longer want to share the same bed as him knowing he was shagging another woman behind my back no thanks.

Op I hope you find peace and what you truly want.

We must be quite different as people. As impulsive as I am, I have never thought myself entitled to disgusting or unlawful actions in response to getting emotionally hurt. I can feel the way I feel... But actions separate decent people from rotten eggs.

No wonder "you made me do it" is a favoured sentiment amongst domestic abusers. Be careful what you preach @GilbertMarkham

I think that's a good idea.

I get you. A few others do. It's not a difficult concept.

The nastiness on this thread is unfounded, and deliberate, and I would absolutely be stepping away too.

(Oh and please, tell him to fuck off if he keeps this line of "I'm really upset about how you acted to my disgusting behaviour")

@Alwaysdecorating

Is it about being wrong?

You have been telling me for some pages now to "take responsibility for my actions". I am asking what you mean. If I have not done anything wrong (and I absolutely feel I have not) then I am very unclear what you are demanding I take responsibility for and what you actually mean by that.

Personally, I think you can do something where the act isn’t wrong. But also the consequences are still your responsibility

I disagree. If I have done nothing wrong, so have nothing I am responsible for.

You weren’t wrong to see other people, you weren’t wrong to give someone a blow Job

I know.

It still caused pain

I know, and as I said I have told him I am sorry it hurt him. Your responded with "saying you are sorry he is hurt isn't taking responsibility for your actions"

So I am still unsure that if I have done nothing wrong, but have apologised anyway for him being hurt (even if I feel certain he brought it on himself) that I still need to take some sort of action of "taking responsibility", but I am baffled over what you mean.

OP, this is now a very long-running thread and you have received huge numbers of responses, I'm sure you can't read everyone.

I firstly wanted to say how sorry I am for what happened to you (and I hope that doesn't sound patronising). Your H did a horrendous thing but compounded it with his lack of respect for boundaries around the OW that you had both agreed, and is behaving abusively by trying to deflect from his own behaviour by attacking you and trying to draw some parallels with his infidelity, and your interaction with the Tinder man. This is so awful, that I genuinely don't see how you can stay with him, have any love or respect for him, and your accounts of the otherwise happy moments (holding hands in front of the children, laughing together) seem like superficial window-dressing.

However, it is entirely your choice, and your H's, about whether to stay in the marriage or not and I respect that this is the choice that feels right to you.

There have been many excellent posts here giving good advice - in your pain you are picking up on points out of context and using them to create a narrative for this thread and your marriage that isn't what is being said.

This stood out to me:
If he doesn't want to do that, he can pack a suitcase, fuck off, and I will replace him with a new husband who chose not to take his pants down twice a week and shove it in someone else's mouth. And I apologise ZERO for that.

You've said similar on other posts in this thread - the choice isn't stay with H OR leave and find a new husband! And I think that may be at the heart of the issue for you - the future beyond this dysfunctional marriage is actually living alone, caring for your DC and creating a life that is different to what you imagined. Perhaps in time you will have a new relationship, or you may not. And either is ok.

I have not been through what you have. However, I was also betrayed by my H, and experienced an abusive relationship / marriage for a long period, and finally was able to end it when my 3 DC were very small. It has been enormously difficult since, including financially. I cannot say that I am thriving, as I try to finalise a divorce, 10 years on. And yet - it is a million times better than if I had stayed. I'm not saying my situation is analogous to your but your fear of what life might be like if your marriage ended, the loss of the fairytale, the attempt to control the problematic aspects of the relationship all resonate so much with me.

in time, you will know the right thing to do, for you. I wish you strength and happiness.

Everyone's entitled to their own responses.

But they still have to take responsibility for their responses. They might be understandable but it doesn't mean they are all the other person's fault.

Shit happens. Cheating happens. Relationships break up. But people still make choices.

I broke up with my ex which completely broke his heart. He went off the rails and became an alcoholic and lost his job among other things.

Is that all my fault? It is an understandable response to having your life upended that you might shag randoms, drink too much, neglect yourself, become depressed, make angry drunken late night calls, send desperate texts or any number of things.

I don't think that means you stop taking responsibility for your actions or choices even if you have suffered hurt..

Do the slut shaming, child neglect accusing knobheads on this thread have any idea that their words can actually cause hurt to someone?

I dont even see why the children are being mentioned, any mention is a totally made up thing in MNers heads because they don't know what the kids know or don't.

And OP could have had anal with the football team while sucking off the rugby team and it doesn't make her a slut, she can do what she wants when she's single. Unlike her DH who done it whilst appearing to be in a happy marriage.

Have skimmed the thread. OP, I think your husband is to blame for destroying your marriage.

However you still seem extremely angry and have not forgiven him. Not saying that you should have to, but am surprised that, feeling the way you do, you still want to be with him?

Sounds like you want to be with him, but it is important to you that you occupy the high ground in the relationship and that he should show penance for what he did.

Leaving aside the rights and wrongs of who did what and exactly how sorry they should be, the fact remains that if staying with you involves him feeling shit about himself every day, he will eventually leave you.

Maybe that’s no bad thing? Maybe that’s what you really want after all? But if you do indeed want to stay with him, then you need to properly forgive him and move on or you will be in this unhappy relationship forever.

If my children are affected, which I go to great sacrifice to ensure they are not, then it is because their father repeatedly put his penis into someone else. Not because I spent four minutes with a willy in my mouth and not because of anything I did or didn't do.
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They would certainly be more affected by me being divorced, and if I end up being so, that won't be my fault either - because I am not the person who took a poop on my marriage.
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@AnneLovesGilbert
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You said you took a month off work to cry day and night. There’s no way your children weren’t very aware of something being incredibly wrong in their home
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I am sure they were at the time. Not really my fault though because I didn't have the affair.
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They’ll know something awful has happened. No explanation you give them will reassure them, children always know more than they’ll let on

I don't think that's true, I think they'd ask me if they thought something awful had happened, however if that is true, then there's not really anything I can do about it. Like I said, getting divorced and breaking up their home isn't actually going to help my children think nothing awful has happened.

This is why OP.

You are so caught up in whose fault it is you aren't interested in looking for solutions. And you think the aim of the game is to "help your children think nothing awful has happened" and for them to "not know what's happened" - you even think they'll come to you and bloody ASK, which shows you have no idea how this stuff affects kids. They will be terrified and confused. The answer to that isn't to gaslight them with fake niceness whilst arguing bitterly acted hours; nor is it to sit back and wait to see if they ask you what's the matter; nor is it to overshare and drag them into your adult problems. It is to take charge of the situation, acknowledge it with them in an age-appropriate way, reassure them they are loved and safe and always will be no matter what happens between you and your husband. take the heat out of your relationship by conducting this ongoing "work" at a remove from the family home, and only coming back together when and if you've actually sorted it out and got past it.

None of that is fun for any of you, but it's a damn sight better than just throwing up your hands and sayin oh well, it is what it is and it's all his fault.