Page 26 | Do you support the ULEZ expansion?

icecream99 · 2023-08-28T18:42:32+00:00

Just curious as it is due to start at midnight tonight and could potentially cause a lot of chaos. I don't support it. YANBU - I DON'T support ULEZ expansion YABU - I DO support ULEZ expansion

Jumpingthruhoops · 01/09/2023 10:49

Comedycook · 01/09/2023 09:42

I agree. The carbon footprint and emissions, not to mention the human misery that it takes to make an electric car are probably far far worse than driving an older car for a few more years. But ulez has nothing to do with the environment. Genuinely amazes me that some people believe it is.

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Totally agree. Which is why I've stopped replying to the idiots on this thread who think it is. You can't reason with stupid.

Comedycook · 01/09/2023 10:59

Jumpingthruhoops · 01/09/2023 10:49

Totally agree. Which is why I've stopped replying to the idiots on this thread who think it is. You can't reason with stupid.

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Well yes. And don't forget if you dare question the motives of a politician or disagree with them, you're labelled a right wing nutter. If you have any concerns about personal freedom, you're a conspiracy theorist. Very odd times.

GreekDogRescue · 01/09/2023 11:03

Comedycook · 01/09/2023 10:59

Well yes. And don't forget if you dare question the motives of a politician or disagree with them, you're labelled a right wing nutter. If you have any concerns about personal freedom, you're a conspiracy theorist. Very odd times.

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Khan accuses those who disagree with Ulez of being far right conspiracy theorists to demonise them because he is incapable of engaging in mature debate.

LittleBearPad · 01/09/2023 11:12

DragonFly98 · 01/09/2023 10:05

Chessington - you do realise it's not just central London.

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Fair but if you can buy tickets for Chessington and pay the car parking charges (cheeky) you can afford £12.50 if your car isn’t compliant.

DdraigGoch · 01/09/2023 11:14

grass321 · 01/09/2023 07:26

I think that "it's forcing people to use an underground system that has massive levels of pollution" is the daftest argument I've seen in this thread, and that takes some doing.

The air quality on the tube isn't great in fairness. Tangential but the noise pollution (or whatever the correct phrase is) has become seriously unpleasant on parts of the underground.

Travelling east on the central line around Bank is probably the worst but the screeching seems to be a common feature on many lines. It's bad for passengers but must be awful for the drivers.

The air quality is certainly not great, and I'm sure that RMT/ASLEF are concerned about the welfare of their members who spend all day down there, RMT has been surveying staff at mainline TOCs on the issue of diesel fumes. What's daft is trying to argue that we shouldn't ban polluting vehicles on the basis that some people might choose to take a 15 minute journey on the tube instead.

In any case, most people who have the opportunity to use rail are already using it. If anything gains passengers from this it'll be buses.

DdraigGoch · 01/09/2023 11:15

GreekDogRescue · 01/09/2023 09:31

There is nothing environmental about scrapping perfectly good cars. Also how can the interior possibly be recycled, it just ends up in landfill.

Then forcing people to buy electric cars full of metals that are excavated in Africa using child labour and environmentally poisonous methods.

This is just a tax on the poorest.

If that creep khan cared about air quality he would improve it on the tube and not drive around in an entourage of range rovers!

And don’t get me started on chopping down trees to make cycle lanes!

If you all care about climate change so much why are you harassing the poorest and not campaigning to ban private jets? Biggin Hill is now in the Ulez zone. No tax on all the planes though!

Rukes for thee and not for me!

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They're not forcing people to buy electric cars. Other options exist, whether it's cycling, public transport or whatever.

DdraigGoch · 01/09/2023 11:17

grass321 · 01/09/2023 10:01

Do you think people who can’t afford to eat or heat their homes are running a car?

In some cases, yes. My brother has been on a zero hours minimum wage contract for a good five years at a national retailer's warehouse in Yorkshire.

He drives a very old Honda Jazz as he can't get public transport for some of his night shifts and it's too far to cycle. He does a lot of the maintenance himself using secondhand parts. When he comes down to visit us, it's also a lot cheaper for him to drive than buy four train tickets.

Which bit of Yorkshire is part of the ULEZ?

RomaniIteDomum · 01/09/2023 11:22

I support them in theory but there's a lot of buts for me.

Firstly it's clearly a revenue stream rather than a genuine bid to cut emissions - allowing people to pay being one factor of that.

It will push up food prices in a COL crisis as an entire fleet of non-compliant vehicle will be hit. (This obviously depends on the system and exemption applied)

It will kill the live music scene in city centres - many small bands transport their equipment in a couple of old estate cars or a transit.

It punishes the less affluent - people like me trapped with a non-compliant diesel bought when the government were telling us it was greener (mine is £30 a year tax, so low emissions) but now trapped with them following the U-turn. Whereas someone wits a £200-a-year 4x4 can continue on as if nothing has changed.

RomaniIteDomum · 01/09/2023 11:23

Oh yeah, and scrapping lots of perfectly serviceable cars is worse for the environment IMO

RomaniIteDomum · 01/09/2023 11:26

Peony654 · 28/08/2023 20:15

Very supportive. Drastic action is needed for pollution and people’s health. ULEZ doesn’t go far enough - there should be a pay per mile scheme not just in London but everywhere. People need to be forced to be more active, the vast majority of illnesses are preventable.

We already have pay per mile implemented through fuel duty.
Any extra on top of that and many people would not be able to get to work

Jumpingthruhoops · 01/09/2023 11:27

Comedycook · 01/09/2023 10:59

Well yes. And don't forget if you dare question the motives of a politician or disagree with them, you're labelled a right wing nutter. If you have any concerns about personal freedom, you're a conspiracy theorist. Very odd times.

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Oh totally. It's got to the point where I consider those 'insults' a compliment! 😂

grass321 · 01/09/2023 11:35

Which bit of Yorkshire is part of the ULEZ?

I was refuting the statement that 'poor' people can't afford cars. In many cases, they're essential to work, particularly for night shifts.

WhenLifeGivesYouLimes · 01/09/2023 11:35

Comedycook · 01/09/2023 09:42

I agree. The carbon footprint and emissions, not to mention the human misery that it takes to make an electric car are probably far far worse than driving an older car for a few more years. But ulez has nothing to do with the environment. Genuinely amazes me that some people believe it is.

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"Probably" = this is a guess I've pulled out of my arse to fit my pre-existing prejudices. Your mileage would have to be very low, especially as the UK grid gets decarbonised.

The breakeven point is about ten thousand miles, depending on country and car, according to this accessible Reuters report.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/when-do-electric-vehicles-become-cleaner-than-gasoline-cars-2021-06-29/

A 2018 Tesla Model 3 electric vehicle is shown in this photo illustration taken in Cardiff, California, U.S., June 1, 2018. REUTERS/Mike Blake

Analysis: When do electric vehicles become cleaner than gasoline cars?

You glide silently out of the Tesla (TSLA.O) showroom in your sleek new electric Model 3, satisfied you're looking great and doing your bit for the planet.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/when-do-electric-vehicles-become-cleaner-than-gasoline-cars-2021-06-29/

Comedycook · 01/09/2023 12:09

WhenLifeGivesYouLimes · 01/09/2023 11:35

"Probably" = this is a guess I've pulled out of my arse to fit my pre-existing prejudices. Your mileage would have to be very low, especially as the UK grid gets decarbonised.

The breakeven point is about ten thousand miles, depending on country and car, according to this accessible Reuters report.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/when-do-electric-vehicles-become-cleaner-than-gasoline-cars-2021-06-29/

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Yes probably....but putting aside EVs, I reckon changing your car every year for a new one must be worse for the environment than buying one car and driving it for over a decade.

greengreengrass25 · 01/09/2023 12:13

grass321 · 01/09/2023 11:35

Which bit of Yorkshire is part of the ULEZ?

I was refuting the statement that 'poor' people can't afford cars. In many cases, they're essential to work, particularly for night shifts.

Yes and it may be a priority over other things

Especially doing night shifts

This has affected shift workers at Heathrow as well I should think so doing a night shift will add £25 to your budget

LittleBearPad · 01/09/2023 12:17

Comedycook · 01/09/2023 12:09

Yes probably....but putting aside EVs, I reckon changing your car every year for a new one must be worse for the environment than buying one car and driving it for over a decade.

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And where is anyone suggesting cars should be changed every year?

Comedycook · 01/09/2023 12:21

LittleBearPad · 01/09/2023 12:17

And where is anyone suggesting cars should be changed every year?

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I'm making the point that older cars which are less likely to be ulez compliant could easily have had a lower impact on the environment over the course of their lifespan than constantly replaced newer vehicles. But it's irrelevant because ulez has nothing to do with the environment anyway

Comedycook · 01/09/2023 12:25

A quick google will give you lots of information as to how many flights Sadiq Khan has taken...it's almost as if he's a massive hypocrite.

JanesBlond · 01/09/2023 12:32

Comedycook · 01/09/2023 12:25

A quick google will give you lots of information as to how many flights Sadiq Khan has taken...it's almost as if he's a massive hypocrite.

Or that his job requires him to fly? Most senior politicians and government officials have regular international meetings. He’s hardly going to take the train to the US.

Anxioys · 01/09/2023 12:58

Well to be honest this is totally academic, as the scheme is lawful, hasn't been stopped and Khan is likely to stand again and be successful.

Gnashing against it is pointless now. Might do better to lobby for exemptions.

greengreengrass25 · 01/09/2023 13:02

People are vandalising the cameras

DdraigGoch · 01/09/2023 13:09

Comedycook · 01/09/2023 12:21

I'm making the point that older cars which are less likely to be ulez compliant could easily have had a lower impact on the environment over the course of their lifespan than constantly replaced newer vehicles. But it's irrelevant because ulez has nothing to do with the environment anyway

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Given that petrol cars would have to be around 17 years old to be non-compliant (though diesel 8 years) then that's hardly "constantly replacing".

DdraigGoch · 01/09/2023 13:12

Comedycook · 01/09/2023 12:25

A quick google will give you lots of information as to how many flights Sadiq Khan has taken...it's almost as if he's a massive hypocrite.

What have flights got to do with air quality around schools and houses? I'm sure that Heathrow doesn't do much good but the main runways are some way from the boundary fence.

LittleBearPad · 01/09/2023 13:15

greengreengrass25 · 01/09/2023 13:02

People are vandalising the cameras

Yes because they are idiots.

A criminal damage charge isn’t going to help their financial position is it.

greengreengrass25 · 01/09/2023 13:17

He has put cameras up against the councils wishes.