What to do about ex bil at christmas

[SavBlancTonight]

This is a bit fraught so will try to explain.

SIL and exBIL broke up almost 2 years ago. It was a difficult relationship and he was emotionally abusive, controlling etc. She was very reactive too so all round bad. She earned all the money with one of their ongoing issues being he worked minimum hours for minimum wage while also NOT doing childcare, home stuff etc. The relationship end wad therefore even worse and his behaviour has been pretty appalling to her as well as to the rest of us - he blames us and has form for sending long rants aggressive messages, being rude in person etc.

They continued to live together for a while so we all had Christmas together at their house 2 years ago. Last year we had Christmas at our house and we were asked to include him for the sake of their dc. He still regularly is there for SIL led family activities including of course things like their dc's birthday.

But I hate him. I hate how he treated and treats SIL. I hate the way he has treated me and dh. I hate the fact that his attendance drags everything down as he walks around with a long face, doesn't make any effort, and largely ignores his own dc. Made worse as they need constant supervision which he refuses to give. Him and SIL inevitably also get into arguments as a result of his uselessness.

So don't want to see him this Christmas. My view is that it's supposed to be a out spending time with people you love. But dh, understandably, feels conflicted as he doesn't want to upset sil and their dc. We did talk about going away for Christmas to.avoid the issue but cash and other logistics mean we can't.

It's causing tension. I honestly have no idea what to do.

He's using you all as pawns in his little play theatre of victimhood. You all mean absolutely nothing to him. He just enjoys spoiling things for everybody else.

It's sad that your SIL is being played like this (and suffering for it), but it is not your responsibility. Cut all contact with this man and ban him from your house.

Why make yourselves and your kids unhappy to keep him happy?

I am here to update because exBIL is currently MIA. No one has seen him for over a month. I believe SIL has had the very occasional text message (after she has chased him). Apparently his mental health is so bad that he simply cannot see the DC. Needless to say, he did not inform her of this in advance but simply did not turn up when they were expecting him.

The big question that I need to address now is whether this is going to be good or bad for our Christmas issue. Dh thinks that this might be the final push SIL needs to disengage herself and stop taking responsibility for exBIL. I would love that to be true. But am a bit nervous the opposite might happen - at some point he will reappear but be very "fragile", making it even more important (in SIL's eyes) for her to be supportive and to bend over backwards to encourage and facilitate a relationship with him and the DC. (I know - it's ridiculous. She should be spitting mad as it's their DC who are a bit confused about why me or DH keep turning up to collect them from school/take them to events as their dad is not around and SIL can't get back from work in time while we work locally/WFH....)

As for Christmas, I never got a chance to raise it with SIL due to exBIL's sudden and unexpected absence. What I didn't explain originally is that the family Christmas would still be relatively small. My family is in another country and PIL are also in another country. So my current plan is to see if we can invite some non family but close friends (also from another country) to a) increase the numbers b) increase the festivities and c) further make it clear that BIL is not welcome and that if that's a problem, we'll have a good time anyway.

I would expect him to be shared up with a new victim.

I think SIL needs the freedom course and therapy quick!!

Can you make a point of saying such an unreliable parent is best having only a little contact with them and she needs to be strong for the DC and create a boundary so they aren't subjected to his mental health as that would be confusing and upsetting for them?

I do hope he is shacked up with someone else!

Fuck him. Don't invite him end of.

I came back to look at this thread as this year's christmas issue has reared its head.

Don't worry, I don't need advice, and the boundaries are all very very clear so DH and I won't be impacted at all, but it’s interesting to read this and think about what’s happened over the last year and is likely to happen this Christmas.

We didn’t allow him last year, but he still managed to negatively impact the day, and his manipulation of SIL, and therefore indirectly us, continued until eventually I lost it and gave her a few home truths.

Over the next few months, his behaviour escalated, and got violent (!!), so she eventually appeared to realise she had to make a clean break. But sadly, he’s been ingratiating himself again recently and DH and I realised this week he’s all set to ruin Christmas for the extended family. We aren’t seeing them anyway so it won’t affect us, but we do feel bad for MIL and, actually, for their DC – SIL wants them to be “kind” to him but her DC are, understandably I think, less keen.

Me and DH are fine, but it makes me sad to think I wrote this thread over a year ago and very little has really changed.

No matter how fond you are of you SIL or her children you don't put their happiness over the happiness of your child.

Accepting an abusive person at Christmas shows your child that abuse is acceptable, families just wish it up and their feelings of safety don't count.

How frustrating.

You've done the right things though. Hopefully sil will eventually have the strength to follow your lead.

Sorry I hadn't realized this thread was a year old but I'm invested! What did he do last year to negatively interrupt the day and how do you feel he will manage it this year?

Can you suggest a phone free day to your in laws to avoid it? Ie "why don't you all stick your phones on silent and pop them in a box somewhere until the end of the day, this enjoying your day in peace"?

Appreciate that is not good advice if he is likely to turn up braying on the door, but at least then they could call the police.

What is the point when he doesn't even seem to enjoy seeing his own children and he seems to ruin the day for everyone.

In what way would the fallout be catastrophic? Where would the fallout come from?

Sorry, I didn't realise that this thread was from last year.

It's sad to read that their children are now being impacted by his behaviour and your SIL is putting her ex before them. He is abusive and violent and she is asking her DC to be kind? How can she justify putting him before her own children? She needs to wake up and try to help her children before he destroys them. What ages are the children?

SIL was manipulated into doing a pre-christmas christmas wth him and family who were visiting and staying with her. So for a start, they all turned up late/hungover/not hungry to our house the next day, made worse because of course, she'd felt bad leaving him behind (he was staying at hers) so she'd then also made a big fry up for him and everyone that morning. I was a bit annoyed as I'd slaved away to prepare a lovely Christmas meal, all my timings were messed up etc (but as it turns out, we also had another small family with us so we'd all at least been able to enjoy a few glasses of bubby and some snacks!).

Meanwhile, he'd ramped up the woe is me rhetporic so she kept basically tellingme we needed to eb kinder to him and that he was struggling with his mental health because we'd cut him off. Which is when I lost it after biting my tongue the first 4 times she said it.

Bunch of stuff between then and now including being verbally abusive and physically threatening to multiple members of the family, disappearing for months (again), promising the DC that hed take them various places over the summer but then refusing to answer calls/text messages from them and from SIL when the time came etc etc etc.

This year, DH and I are fairly certain that she's going to let him stay with her and the DC over CHristmas. Which will really destory Christmas for that side of the family who won't be able to escape him. BIL usually stays with SIL over Christmas because he doens't drive and there are no trains, but I think it's possible he'll refuse to come at all.

He really is just a grenade in the middle of our family.

The other big shift for me and DH is that while we are of course sympathetic to SIL, we also feel strongly that it's now at the point where she has to take responsibility for her own actions and behaviours. They've been broken up for years, he has let her and the DC down so many times as well as actively behaving so badly that at one point she called the police..... if she keeps insisting on letting him back in, that's on her. If, for example, he IS staying with her and she so much as makes a single comment about how sad it is for him to stay home when her and the DC come to us to swap presents, I don't see that ending well for her from either me or DH.

Yup. Which is why DH and I are losing sympathy for her. She should be much further down the line of not getting sucked in. He has recently started making an effort to engage with their DC. Great, theoretically. But neither he nor her can understand or accept why the DC might not be super excited to talk to him or see him. He hasn't been an active part of their lives in months, and before that was inconsistent and unpleasant and unreliable so....

I remember how upset and emotional I was about this when I started this thread last year. Now I just shrug my shoulders mostly. I feel desperately sorry for her and for their DC, but nothing we've said or done has had any impact so I can't keep bashing my head against that wall. She excuses his behaviour because ishe thinks it's to do with his MH. Nothing more I can do.

DC are 8 and 10.

Their relationship is not your business, but if you don’t want to see someone (whatever reason) just say no.🙂

I honestly think I would text her something along the lines of

"I see you've allowed yourself to be manipulated into letting ex into your home again so your DC don't have a safe space from him and they have a shit Christmas ruined by him again. Why is appeasing your emotions more important than the DC happiness?"

I don't think there is anything else left to salvage with her tbh.

@RandomMess we have basically said that, or versions, at intervals over the last year. But she intrinsically disagrees with our assessment so... 🤷‍♀️.

We are less close and see her less than we usdd to, but mostly she thinks that's because we are not very understanding. Not much we can do about that.

Tragic for the DC isn't it.

I hope can get to see the DC somehow without either parent.

It's so shit

It really is. Its so strange sometimes because she's otherwise an intelligent, emotionally aware woman. But her ability to tie herself in knots to justify or excuse his behaviour is bizarre.

It sounds like you've done all you can, but I thoroughly agree that you're now at the point where you have to protect your Christmas and family time from him, even if that means cutting off your SIL. It's been too long now, SIL is now responsible for continuing to enable him.

I agree.

Those children have awful parents.
Both of them are really shit.
She clearly puts him very far ahead of her children.
If they judge her harshly in future she will deserve it.

It's been really hard for dh in particular to come to the realisation that his sister is a bad parent, because @sunnings you are right, she is.

It used to make me so angry. Now it just makes me sad.

This!

Such an.approach might actually also help SIL to move (him) on, too.