What to do about ex bil at christmas

[SavBlancTonight]

This is a bit fraught so will try to explain.

SIL and exBIL broke up almost 2 years ago. It was a difficult relationship and he was emotionally abusive, controlling etc. She was very reactive too so all round bad. She earned all the money with one of their ongoing issues being he worked minimum hours for minimum wage while also NOT doing childcare, home stuff etc. The relationship end wad therefore even worse and his behaviour has been pretty appalling to her as well as to the rest of us - he blames us and has form for sending long rants aggressive messages, being rude in person etc.

They continued to live together for a while so we all had Christmas together at their house 2 years ago. Last year we had Christmas at our house and we were asked to include him for the sake of their dc. He still regularly is there for SIL led family activities including of course things like their dc's birthday.

But I hate him. I hate how he treated and treats SIL. I hate the way he has treated me and dh. I hate the fact that his attendance drags everything down as he walks around with a long face, doesn't make any effort, and largely ignores his own dc. Made worse as they need constant supervision which he refuses to give. Him and SIL inevitably also get into arguments as a result of his uselessness.

So don't want to see him this Christmas. My view is that it's supposed to be a out spending time with people you love. But dh, understandably, feels conflicted as he doesn't want to upset sil and their dc. We did talk about going away for Christmas to.avoid the issue but cash and other logistics mean we can't.

It's causing tension. I honestly have no idea what to do.

In that case, you may have to take the approach of ensuring that appeasing you is less trouble than appeasing SIL. Because a lot of the time in these situations, people who feel stuck in the middle take the path of least resistance. Make that not be you.

He can't send you abusive messages if you block him from everything. There is no need to be in touch with him. Seriously, this vile man is holding your entire family to ransom.

Honestly, none of the kids care. The issue is that dh wants to see his family. So do I to be honest. We get on well and mine aren't around so it's nice to spend time with them. If he's not there.

I am going to see about a conversation with Sil and a possible compromise.

I have tried to explain to dh that I understand but also that it's MY Christmas too. But I think he doesn't quite get it - his view is that he can suck it up so I should too.

the rest of the family are still not sure it was the right decision to exclude him.

but nobody else in ‘the rest of the family’ gets to decide who comes to your house.

Why does Xmas need to be at your house?

Why can’t one of the in laws who are bending over backwards to pretend this man is a reasonable person, host themselves and then the decision isn’t anything to do with you?!

I don’t see the issue. You don’t like him - for all reasons listed - just don’t invite him. What will he do? Send a shitty text? He always makes SIL’s life a misery - but that is up to her to sort out. I don’t see why you should tolerate his behaviour in your home, just because it’s Christmas.

DH's family all sound very fucked up tbh. Someone has to set acceptable boundaries and I think it might have to be you, since you are the 'outsider' and have clarity about this situation.

Put it this way, do you want your children growing up to think it's okay to behave like bil and everyone else has to put up with it? It sets a bad example for their future relationships because children learn from what they see. And they notice more than we might realise.

You have to show your children (and maybe dh too) what healthy boundaries look like.

You'll also be doing sil a solid if she can get from under this man's control.

My BIL still lives with his ex (three kids, but mostly grown now so don't get it), and she's never included in family things, and she was fine - marriage had just run it's course. Certainly would not include someone I didn't like. How old are the kids? They can see their Dad in the morning, they don't have to have dinner with him too.

I don't get it. Why does the ex BIL want to spend the day with people he doesn't like? Why wouldn't they start alternating Christmas with him taking the DC to his family rather than trying to orchestrate a situation that suits absolutely no one apart from him.

What's he actually going to do if someone says no?

Do they have agreed contact arrangements? If they don't it's time your SIL sorted that out.

I think at rhe end of the day, he was controlling and has found new ways to control her (and us). But making a stand for myself causes a lot of knock on issues for everyone else. sometimes it only takes one person to stand up to that kind of behaviour to make a difference.

Right now everyone is afraid to rock the boat, so if you were to do it then it might make the rest realise that it’s ok to do so.

I wouldn’t firmly make the point that he wasn’t welcome. I would say to your sil that you’d love to host her and the children. If she makes reference to ex BIL then I would simply say that as they’re not together any more the invitation wouldn’t include him.

I’m all for ex’s being invited to events when splits are amicable and relationships are still good. I have an excellent relationship with my ex ILs who are lovely people. But someone who is controlling and who should have been an ex a long time ago there is not a chance in hell I would be inviting him.

100% this. Its not healthy for anyone involved and I would refuse to be a part of it.

"I don't get it. Why does the ex BIL want to spend the day with people he doesn't like?"

I suspect he likes the control he has over them. He's the one driving all this and sounds like he is getting a kick out of it.

His boundaries are so fucked that he'd rather your enjoyment of Christmas be collateral than do anything to rock the boat. There's just no way I would tolerate that.

You may not be able to change his underlying problems, but what you can change is his assessment of who it's in his interests to go along with.

Totally agree with this, why is he allowed to stay in contact with your family when you don't like him or want him around?

Seriously hell would freeze over before I voluntarily went anywhere near the guy again. I certainly wouldn't want my children having to put up with his presence, especially over Christmas which is supposed to be a pleasant, fun occasion!

The PP who suggested your SIL does the Freedom Programme was bob on. Your SIL seems to need guidance on how to set boundaries for herself and dc. Her ex will have rights to see his dc, he doesn't have rights to keep inserting himself in his ex-in laws' lives any more.

All normal rules are null when someone is abusive. Divorced people manage to cooperate at Christmas, abusive people continue to abuse.

As it is you ex-BIL is still abusing his family, and finding new ways to control you all.

If you say no it's a clear signal to you SIL that it is possible to say no, she doesn't have to accommodate her ex and that you have her back when she says no too.

BIL has options

Christmas with his parents with or without his children

Christmas with his children - somewhere, Hotel maybe?

Christmas with SIL for the sake of the children

Christmas on his own/ with friends

Up to him what he decides to do, and yes, some options are better than others, but the point is it is not your responsibility, or your OH’s responsibility either.

If you want you could invite SIL and children to yours, but that is your choice, not an obligation, I assume she also has other family.

This is the eternal question and one I ask myself a LOT. He calls us names, swears etc and then still wants to hang out? Makes no sense to me either.

He doesn't have much of a relationship with his family. And he's never spent Christmas with them in the 15 odd years I have known him.

All the comments saying us putting boundaries would help Sil- that's sort of true and has been true in certain situations. But it is a bit of a balancing act and we.can go too far the other way.

Your husband's family are enabling him to continue his toxic and abusive behaviour towards your sister in law.

Tell them that, because it is the truth. They need to zoom out and look at this again with a new perspective. The children are not benefiting from this.

He's continuing control by refusing to allow his ex space with her own family, that's why

Yes. Also, he is the eternal victim so this works on lots of levels for.him - he is a victim and has nowhere to go so can manipulate sil. He gets to feel the victim because we aren't nice enough to him etc etc.

I wouldn’t have him in my home, not for a moment.

Surely he has his own home so the DC can head over there in the evening.

This sort of thing drives me nuts. I have a friend in a similar situation to SIL at the moment and it’s absolutely ridiculous. So I’ll say what I said to her: what, exactly, is the point of separating from an abusive partner if you are still having to spend a ton of your time with that abusive partner ‘for the kids’ in exactly the same way you did when you were married? It is insane. The kids are not benefiting from their father ruling everyone’s lives like a furious tyrant. Nobody is. The kids, hard though it sounds, need to adapt to not having both parents there for every occasion. This situation is unhealthy and toxic for the entire extended family and it needs to stop.

Absolutely do not invite someone to your home who has behaved in the way that you describe. The whole family is enabling this man’s awful behaviour and it’s helping nobody but him. SIL will not see this unless people start taking a stand and refusing to have him at their celebrations. He is the kids’ father - well, so what? He has a connection with them but that doesn’t mean he has a connection with you and he does not need to be invited to every family event that his children are invited to.

I appreciate that SIL is a victim of his abuse and I sympathise hugely with her, but I also think she actually has quite a nerve telling you that you must invite a man to your own birthdays, Christmases etc when he has a long history of being abusive and harassing towards you and your husband.

Wait, so your husband doesnt want him there either and has previously blamed you for the BiL excluding him...it sounds like everyone sits around wringing their hands and doing nothing and blames anyone who doesn't fall in line.

I think this is less about BIL and more about DH not having your back. If DH wont "let" you exclude BIL I think you tell DH you arent hosting with the kids on the house being exposed to that behaviour and the choice is either you and kids go to your family and he hosts at home alone, you all go somewhere without BIL or you as a family host and make clear that BIL has no place at the table.

So the rest of the family continue to be complicit in his abuse of their sister/daughter? And to allow it to happen on what should be a safe space for her.

Fuck me the whole lot of them need to sort their boundaries out. Your poor SIL, she and her dcs don't stand a chance.

So don't have him. People you hate should not be in your home at Christmas or at any other time.

So sorry if I have missed it but is it DH's sister or brother? ie is he blood or not?

If he isn;t I don't see the problem in kicking him out.

If he is DH's actual brother well sure it's more tricky but he's made his bed. Let him lie in it. Be strong.

And yes, keep reminding your husband that it is your Christmas too. Do you have kids because if so, theirs too.