What to do about ex bil at christmas

[SavBlancTonight]

This is a bit fraught so will try to explain.

SIL and exBIL broke up almost 2 years ago. It was a difficult relationship and he was emotionally abusive, controlling etc. She was very reactive too so all round bad. She earned all the money with one of their ongoing issues being he worked minimum hours for minimum wage while also NOT doing childcare, home stuff etc. The relationship end wad therefore even worse and his behaviour has been pretty appalling to her as well as to the rest of us - he blames us and has form for sending long rants aggressive messages, being rude in person etc.

They continued to live together for a while so we all had Christmas together at their house 2 years ago. Last year we had Christmas at our house and we were asked to include him for the sake of their dc. He still regularly is there for SIL led family activities including of course things like their dc's birthday.

But I hate him. I hate how he treated and treats SIL. I hate the way he has treated me and dh. I hate the fact that his attendance drags everything down as he walks around with a long face, doesn't make any effort, and largely ignores his own dc. Made worse as they need constant supervision which he refuses to give. Him and SIL inevitably also get into arguments as a result of his uselessness.

So don't want to see him this Christmas. My view is that it's supposed to be a out spending time with people you love. But dh, understandably, feels conflicted as he doesn't want to upset sil and their dc. We did talk about going away for Christmas to.avoid the issue but cash and other logistics mean we can't.

It's causing tension. I honestly have no idea what to do.

Yanbu. Hopefully a conversation with SIL helps.

@SavBlancTonight why do you have to be the ones to host?

Let the in laws (who seem to like tip-toeing around this man) host and then you can go/not go as you decide.

Talk to her. Say you want to invite her and DC for the day but yu really can;t face having him there, dragging down the mood, so please could she arrange for DC to see him on any other day than Christmas Day itself. If that isn;t possible suggest that she and her Dc come to you on Boxing Day instead. Make it very festive and fun for everyone, like a Christmas Day.

there's no reason on earth you should host him and there are several days around Christmas where she can fit in her DC seeing him.

He's going to find a way to make himself the victim whatever happens, no?

This is simple, there is no reason for you to have anything to do with him, ever really. Just explain what you've put here to her and say you aren't willing to continue hosting him.

You seem to be making this all about you. I’m inclined to agree with your DH - if he can suck it up, why not you?

If this was coming from your SIL, asking you to help her not to have to include him, that would be different. And, if you discuss it with your SIL, and she asks you to help exclude him, you should do it. But only if it’s what works for her.

You have no other family to spend Christmas with, so you have to make the most of the one you have got. Most families have a racist uncle (or in my case a moany FIL) that they have to invite. Very few people have the perfect family Christmas, where everyone gets along, particularly if it’s a big group.

You and your DH can work on taking the pressure off SIL on the big day, and make sure the children are all entertained, as exBIL won’t step up to the mark. And just ignore him the best you can. It’s literally one day.

It is understandable that your DH feels conflicted, but I would ask him what the main role of Christmas is for your own family, and that your BIL’s demeanour and the fights / arguments are not the Christmas you want to give your own kids. It just isn’t fair.

SIL is an adult and can manage her own life (Freedom Programs support is a good suggestion): your kids need you and their father to manage their environment.

I would also suggest you find a way to make your DH more aware of the patterns and mechanisms of abuse, and enablement.

Because actually his family are enabling g ongoing emotional control.

It’s all very well them being mature and communicative around ex-relationships but it doesn’t work where there is control or abuse. They are not supporting their Dd by including her abuser.

Encourage your DH to have a look at some material about indications of abuse and patterns / cycles. Take the argument off Christmas Day for a while and divert it to ‘how do we best support SIL’.

Constantly easing this man j to her life isn’t it.

Get your DH to think about why exBIL was so keen to be part of the casual pizza night. He then insulted you…does DH want to be emotionally manipulated by this man too???

I genuinely don't understand why you would have someone like that in your home.

Your home is your sanctuary. It's invitation only. And your DH is being a chicken-shit.

Listen to your gut.
You don't want him there or anything to do with him.
Stick to this. The other members of the family are still being influenced by this fucker. You are the route to strength and ridding the family of this very unpleasant person.
Under no circumstances allow him to control your family. He needs to fuck off . calmly make your plans without this person. If sil must see him she is welcome to do so obviously but not at your home. If you stand firm in your views and actions it may help others to do the same. Sounds like his controlling nature still dominates others.
What an arsehole

Am I missing something?

You don't 'do' anything. Stop including him or thinking about him and get on with your own lives.

You could let him pop in to give presents to the kids but not stay all day

Absolutely don't have this appalling man in your house - it's controlling, I had a family member who did the same, was rude and aggressive but had to be included in everything, until I just said no, there were events i missed because he was there, but worth it not to have him in my life. I haven't seen him in years now and nearly all of the family have greatly reduced contact.

You in-laws are not supporting your SIL they are enabling him to control him. If he wants to see his kids he can see them in the morning before they go to yours. As he never has them by himself he's obviously not that bothered, your SIL needs to stop trying to make the kids think he's a good dad, they know he's not.

My God, I would be entirely happy to rock the boat. Hell, I'd be prepared to capsize it. Someone who is physically, verbally, and emotionally abusive at my Christmas, and more importantly my children's Christmas? That is a hill I'd be prepared to die on - or have someone else die on for that matter!

No way.

No one would be telling me I should suck it up, and my kids should have to suck it up, just because they were prepared to be an utter wet doormat and suck it up, rather than stand up for theirs and thine.

Nope, nah uh.

These Christmases are precious. Before you know it, you've had those Christmases with your kids as kids, and it's gone. Is this the kind of memory you want them to have, that they deserve to have?

Alternatively, I'd be making it very clear to the nasty abusive little oik that the minute he started with his performance, he'd be told to leave, and that's the last time he'd be setting foot in the house. And telling his ex-wife too.

No one should be asking that of you and your family.

I think his behaviour last Christmas makes it perfectly acceptable to say no more and for the DC to accept that he won't be there. To SIL you state that he spoiled it for everyone and his abuse and control of her needs to stop. It's been 2 years time for new traditions, DC are older so on and so on.

It may well be catastrophic but it will only happen once and the boundary will be set that you are not going to deal with other people's crap in your house at Christmas.

This.

It's fine to include exes if everyone is amicable and gets on. But your BIL is not amicable.

This situation is all down to his behaviour. It's his fault you don't want to see him.

Make a stand now or else you will still be arguing about this in ten years' time...

I'm amazed your h's family are still seeing him! What will it take for them to cut him off totally?

Your SIL needs to do the Freedom Programme.

But you have NO obligation to host or ever see this controlling waste of space ever again.

So what if it causes an argument now? At least you'll have a peaceful Christmas.

The thing is you’ve already excluded him and he’s already livid about it. So just continue that exclusion. He’s no longer welcome in your home or in your lives. He doesn’t get to bully you and send aggressive messages then expect to be invited and treated to things. Just say no. You’re not welcome. The end. If his family have a problem then leave it be their problem. You don’t owe anyone a relationship. Especially someone aggressive and controlling

I think you’re helping to perpetuate the controlling and abusive behaviour if you continue to include him.

Horrible situation. You say your kids don't care - would you actually be happy for them to remember Christmases with that prat moping about, and adults (SIL + XBIL) arguing?!? Family time is SACRED in my house, my children come absolute first, and I will (and have) bluntly banned people from visiting at specific times. Yes it's difficult, but I will do it for my children and their childhood memories. I was lucky enough to have an idyllic childhood and I treasure the memories. You are in fact able to control this issue, unlike illness etc, so I say DO IT and it will never be as hard to do again. Gird your loins! Sending fierceness your way xx

I'm not sure would the fall out be so catastrophic? Can you shed some light please?

Thanks all. This has been helpful.

In terms of people saying that we are enabling him, I totally get that. But I think the analogy is like when you watch the big action movie and the CIA agent is captured by the bad guy. Instead of torturing him (he'd never talk, he can take it), they torture someone innocent who he loves and make him watch.

That's what I mean by how we are 100% aware that it's bullshit but find it difficult to navigate. Because it's HER life that is made hell by him. And yes, we can all agree that she needs to walk away and learn to disentangle herself and believe me, we're all trying to encourage her to do that as much as we can...but it's not a once and done sort of process.

I have sent her info on the freedom program before. She has not done it. I might try again - you never know, it might encourage her to do it.

Also, to be clear, he has been emotionally and verbally abusive to SIL over a long time, but he wasn't verbally abusive at our house at Christmas. Mostly he was morose and long-faced and ignored their DC, including when their DC were behaving badly.

As someone else pointed out, it's very obvious he does not enjoy spending time with the whole extended family, so it's ridiculous. But I guess, as I said before, he gets to feel like a victim and he loves that.