Karen advert

[IncognitoMam]

This shouldn't be allowed surely? Who comes up with this shit?
I'm not called Karen but I know Karen's that hate their name now because of the way it's used.

I can guarantee you that the kids using the term Karen to put down women who have an opinion, know nothing of Elizabeth Eckford. It is a mysogonist and, largely, racist term. It is offensive. Fact.

Agree, the meaning has changed over here. I have been called a Karen for politely pointing out another person’s racism. It means “buzzkill” or nag here. Used by white men about white women.

And I’d say not just middle-aged women, it is any woman who challenges a man in any way. Has your female boss given you negative feedback for something? Ignore her, she’s a Karen. Does somebody point out you can’t park your work van in a disabled spot? Tell her to fuck off Karen.

And can we please stop with the "middle aged, expressing displeasure " as if its describing people who are perfectly correct and being assertive. No. That's not what it describes. It describes people who are being unreasonable, rude or unkind. In my opionion its an inappropriate and not nice word for not nice or justifiable behaviour. Let's just call them cunts and be done with it! (Actually that probably would make the advert better!)

Is that not the point that many here are making? A racist American woman persecuting a black girl is a very different thing from a middle aged white woman advocating for herself in a UK hospital setting. Middle aged women are typically fobbed off and misdiagnosed in clinical settings. It took me more than 10 years to have a serious medical condition diagnosed and treated and it was only when I stopped meekly accepting that there was nothing wrong that I was finally taken seriously. No doubt my NHS notes have me down as a 'Karen' - but at least I am no longer in pain.

Accusing the people being called "Karens" of misappropriating the term is bizarre and nonsensical.

@DeeCee77 who are you talking about. The women who have the misogynistic term aimed at them?

We don’t want it applied to us, nor to see it in marketing

Are you aiming your posts at (mostly) males and advertisers?

@DeeCee77
Is there a white male equivalent for Karen in the original context?

Is there a male equivalent for Karen in the current context in the UK? The way it's being used in the advert, I mean?

There's been a couple of names mentioned by others but I've never heard either being used, except as names for men.

Oddly, I can't think if one, but your expertise on the history of black oppression and racism in the US may have the answer, I hope.

On the Last of Us subreddit people (mostly Americans, presumably) were referring to Melane Lynskey's character as a Karen. The same people that would downvote the hell out of any suggestion of bias against any other group, but middle-aged women are fair game.

My name is Karen and my name is now being used as a slur and a way to silence women like me; middle aged women who have considered & nuanced opinions and arguments, who won't accept poor service or being treated as second class citizens not worthy of being listened to.

It is no bloody laughing matter. Its an incredibly misogynistic and ageist.

The older I get the more I sympathise with those poor women who ended up on the ducking stool for calling out other people for their shit. That would definitely have been me these days.

The term is up there with boomer (as someone else said), woke, leftard and other awful shut downs.

Karen's even have their own haircut now ... got to keep women in their box 😡

*Karens not Karen's

But that is how it is used, by misogynists who think any woman disagreeing with them, challenging them or inconveniencing them in any way needs slapping down for her outrageous effrontery.

I don’t hear it being used about racists. I don’t hear it being used about “speak to the manager” types. I hear it being used when women try to enforce a boundary with men.

I think in addition to reporting to Facebook (who probably will do nothing) I would report to the Advertising Standards Authority.

All the women I have ever known called Karen are lovely people. Even if they were not, it is a pejorative term.

@GoFaster83 but that's the thing....of course there is awful, bullying, unnecessary OTT behaviour in all sorts of contexts by both male and female people. That can and should be challenged in an articulate and specific way, not by using a random generic female name. However we ALSO have the "Karen" term used in a widespread and casual way now to mock and belittle increasingly any age female who points out a problem, especially if they dare to point out sexism. The two are different and one does not negate the other.

What this is thread is illustrating to me is that different people have different understanding of, what I think we all agree, is an unacceptable word. Some people will absolutely be using it in a misogynistic way, some people see it more as a description of other kinds of behaviours, be they racist or otherwise. As a pp Said (after accusing me of not understanding the argument) it's not hard to find better vocabulary to describe things. And I think we'd be better if we all tried that than use gender based slurs.

Same here.

"Karen" used as a put down is just a modern term for "witch". In the UK, at least. I appreciate its different elsewhere and has a history that is no longer reflected in its current usage in the UK (generalisation, I know).

Crone. Hag. Witch.

It's such a pretty name, too.

Karen is now used in the UK to shut up older women or any woman who speaks up, including black women. It may have been appropriated from black people in the US but that is how it is used here now. Blame the people who are using it like that if you want, not the people who dont like it being used in a misogynistic, ageist way and being used to silence women..

I think this is an awful ad :-(

I’m actually shocked by the number of women in business who use this term as well, I won’t work with any business that thinks this is ok.

It is not "mainly" males that use this term it has become a common phrase amongst both sexes.

If @DeeCee77 is so incensed by the corruption of the term maybe instead of trying to re-educate those that are offended by the new usage (and already no the terms history) maybe she should direct her ire at those corrupting the term and empathise with those stuck in the middle

Blaming the women its used against is ridiculous.

The (mostly) men who throw it as an insult, as a tool to silence, are not held responsible, are not blamed, are not challenged.

Wonder why not?

This was how it started but it's now used here for any so called irritating woman. I had to tell my 12 year old nephew off for using it.

I agree that it’s very significant that the term is being used in a healthcare context. We all know that women are treated as second-class citizens (and that’s putting it mildly) by healthcare practitioners and systems. Now that we have noticed this discrepancy as a society, the discourse is apparently evolving to shut us up and stop us complaining about it.

You’re in pain, can’t go about your normal life, and no one is taking you seriously? Shut up, Karen!

Good article about it in the Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2020/apr/13/the-karen-meme-is-everywhere-and-it-has-become-mired-in-sexism

Basically, as many have said, just another way of misogynists trying to shut women up.

Must admit I'm flabbergasted by the extent of the ignorance on here towards a subject that is well documented, that is the history of terror inflicted on non white people by what is now the most powerful nation on Earth.

Granted I'm well versed on this subject as although I'm white and Irish, thus thousands of miles away from where it all took place (and still takes place), our own civil rights marches in 1960s Northern Ireland were directly inspired by those undertaken by MLK and co. What my parents generation as catholics went through isn't comparable to what the black (or natives) went through in america, but it inspired them nonetheless.

The Karen should give any decent human being chills. They are among the worst of the worst. The men carried out the terror (public lynchings) but quite often at the instigation of the Karen, the racist white american woman who weaponised her white privilege. From george washington's wife and daughters onward (who felt entitled to own human beings, like pets) that place has traumatized a group of people who showed incredible dignity and courage in the face of unspeakable atrocities.

Women have been oppressed throughout history and language reflects that. Karen is just yet another misogynistic word to add to the countless others.

http://sacraparental.com/2016/05/14/everyday-misogyny-122-subtly-sexist-words-women/