Page 17 | Karen advert

IncognitoMam · 2023-08-26T06:29:14+00:00

This shouldn't be allowed surely? Who comes up with this shit? I'm not called Karen but I know Karen's that hate their name now because of the way it's used.

JustHereWithMyPopcorn · 26/08/2023 15:35

DeeCee77 · 26/08/2023 09:54

And yes OP, you are being very unreasonable missappropriating a term given to racist white american women that have had deadly consequences for a group of oppressed people.

Here's one of the victims of the Karen, the racist white american woman who weaponised her white pivilege.

This is Marnie Till, mother of Emmett, at the funeral of her 14 year old son who had been lynched after a Karen said he wolf whistled at her.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Emmett_Till%27s_funeral_-_mourners.jpg

You're clearly just taking the piss now.

RisingSunn · 26/08/2023 15:35

Saschka · 26/08/2023 15:13

It’s in the OP. Do you really think that advert was about ways of preventing racism? Or was it actually about shutting up a woman who is complaining about receiving poor healthcare?

Show quote history

I was speaking in broader terms. A previous poster was insinuating that the original meaning was in a sense historical and “done away with.”

When in (my experience) the term still very much holds the same meaning. Eg. Weaponised privilege, obnoxious & bullying behaviour and when confronted…tears.

So a far cry from simply being a woman and assertive.

And to a PP - No I don't live on a desert island ..just London. Though not on Reddit etc

Somanyquestionstoaskaboutthis · 26/08/2023 15:37

This thread is making my head spin. We have people trying to say that the only use of Karen is in the US history, people saying it is still used at racists but nothing else, someone saying ignore everything you know is true and then let’s discuss ( pretty rudely IMO), people saying it’s only used this new way on MN.

Karen in this advert is being used the way my dc use it ( and get called out by me for), the way many people on the thread are saying it is widely used. As an insult at any woman, but particularly older women, who stand up for themselves, or disagree with the user, or dare to complain about poor service.

Just because it has other historical use does not mean it is not used in this way now.

JuvenileEmu · 26/08/2023 15:37

RisingSunn · 26/08/2023 15:35

I was speaking in broader terms. A previous poster was insinuating that the original meaning was in a sense historical and “done away with.”

When in (my experience) the term still very much holds the same meaning. Eg. Weaponised privilege, obnoxious & bullying behaviour and when confronted…tears.

So a far cry from simply being a woman and assertive.

And to a PP - No I don't live on a desert island ..just London. Though not on Reddit etc

Show quote history

What are your thoughts on the advert the thread is about?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/08/2023 15:37

It's never been a race thing for the majority of white people in the U.K. and it didn't start off as race related in the US. It's just lazy misogyny.

Boomboom22 · 26/08/2023 15:40

I don't think the term Karen has any race connotations at all now, it means any woman over 40 having an opinion now.
Like woke used to mean aware of racism but certainly doesn't mean that now.

AntiSocial6DaysAWeek · 26/08/2023 15:40

JustHereWithMyPopcorn · 26/08/2023 15:35

You're clearly just taking the piss now.

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Why is she taking the piss?

Obtula · 26/08/2023 15:43

it didn't start off as race related in the US.

Exactly. In the USA there was BBQ Becky, permit patty, etc. They sparked social commentary about white female privilege.

Running parallel to that was Karen memes, which was misogynistic ranting about women taking the fucking kids.

For reasons unclear the two got conflated after Karen went mainstream as Talk To The Manager Karen. But Karen has always in all her iterations been a woman who doesn't know her place.

Bettelucksecondtimearoundimherewaitingforu · 26/08/2023 15:43

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/08/2023 15:44

Obtula · 26/08/2023 15:43

it didn't start off as race related in the US.

Exactly. In the USA there was BBQ Becky, permit patty, etc. They sparked social commentary about white female privilege.

Running parallel to that was Karen memes, which was misogynistic ranting about women taking the fucking kids.

For reasons unclear the two got conflated after Karen went mainstream as Talk To The Manager Karen. But Karen has always in all her iterations been a woman who doesn't know her place.

Edited

Yes, exactly.

BillaBongGirl · 26/08/2023 15:44

Obtula · 26/08/2023 15:30

No, it became widely popularised at the point it morphed into "speak to the manager Karen", in early 2020.

After that, you get the first bunch of Barbecue Becky memes. Karen speak to the manager/haircut memes were already completely mainstream by then. About six months after Barbecue Becky, there was the woman in the park with the dog, she got conflated with Karen by some culture wars commenters in the USA.

So…the 2018 BBQ Becky and Permit Patty came after the 2020 Karen?

All the prior usages of Karen were either

rants on Reddit about a man’s ex actually named Karen that hardly any one ever saw
rap song about an ex wife named Karen who kept the kids in a divorce

None of these ever went viral and none were ever memes. Furthermore none of these had the “usage” of being ageist or misogynistic or directed against white women as claimed. Both were about messy break ups.

The only Karen that was a meme and went viral was the Karen meme related to privileged white women being racist.

It’s such old hat for white people to claim credit for something the Black culture creates, that I’m not even surprised at these attempts to come up with obscure origin stories to deflect from the issue of racism amongst white women.

BillaBongGirl · 26/08/2023 15:49

It was the word of the year FFS. Don’t be gaslighting us all with this BS that it doesn’t have its definition and usage.

Obtula · 26/08/2023 15:53

Karen in 2019, post BBQ becky et al. Widespread, not racist, talking to the manager

www.wired.com/story/tropical-storm-karen-meme/

BillaBongGirl · 26/08/2023 15:53

I think people are conflating the use of Karen with the misuse of Karen.

I can call a man a misogynist all day long, even if he’s not a misogynist. The act of my misusing it to insult him and personally attack him, doesn’t change the definition or usage of misogynist,

I can call anyone here a racist Nazi all day long too, that similarly doesn’t change the definition of or usage of the words racist or Nazi.

So stop with the whole argument that er well someone I heard of or know was called Karen and they weren’t being a Karen so that means Karen must be ageist and misogynist. No it doesn’t.

CallieJones · 26/08/2023 15:55

wayyour · 26/08/2023 14:06

’Karen’ is not used as a slur or to silence all women. It specifically targets White women, both in the US and U.K.

No. Earlier in the thread I gave the example of my non white sister in law being called a Karen, because she's a woman and middle aged (and not the least bit rude or entitled). So misogyny and ageism.

We're in the UK, and it was a group of male teenagers who called her a Karen; she was about to go into a supermarket and politely said excuse me as their bikes were blocking her access between the car park and the shop.

According to some on this thread those teenage boys were carrying out important anti racism work when they called your black SIL a Karen. They weren't being ageist or misogynistic at all or shutting down women.

Bettelucksecondtimearoundimherewaitingforu · 26/08/2023 15:58

BillaBongGirl · 26/08/2023 15:44

So…the 2018 BBQ Becky and Permit Patty came after the 2020 Karen?

All the prior usages of Karen were either

rants on Reddit about a man’s ex actually named Karen that hardly any one ever saw
rap song about an ex wife named Karen who kept the kids in a divorce

None of these ever went viral and none were ever memes. Furthermore none of these had the “usage” of being ageist or misogynistic or directed against white women as claimed. Both were about messy break ups.

The only Karen that was a meme and went viral was the Karen meme related to privileged white women being racist.

It’s such old hat for white people to claim credit for something the Black culture creates, that I’m not even surprised at these attempts to come up with obscure origin stories to deflect from the issue of racism amongst white women.

Show quote history

Thank you @BillaBongGirl . Well said- all of it.

"I’m not even surprised at these attempts to come up with obscure origin stories to deflect from the issue of racism amongst white women."

What I have been saying and the pile on to shut me down (and others) failed.

On MN, because most posters are white (it must be that as it is a UK site and whites are the majority in the populace), I find it is a safe haven for a 'pile on' on anyone objecting to the minimisation ( and God forbids, total dismissal/ regard) of/ to racism. I don't even care if the perpetrator is a racist white male or white female. Nor does it matter their ages.

I am lucky, I honestly SEE no colour and I pay tribute to the amazing upbringing my parents gave me to see no colour. I also see no age, gender, weight and I am a slim size 8. etc. And, I am blessed with critical thinking and excellent education and get classed as upper class/ elite/ 'it's alright for some' here and there so I have no chip on my shoulder- and I can stand up for others ( I care less about abuse directed at ME- I stand up for others!). So racists harbouring on MN, you have no escape any more. Be warned. Maybe find another site. MH headquarters do their best to make and keep this site inclusive- so who are you to be divisive! Yes, I have said it.

Obtula · 26/08/2023 15:58

From the 2019 article: "For the last three years or so, "Karen" has been the internet's stock female antagonist: a righteously annoyed middle-aged white woman who loves coupons, reverse mullet bobs, and, above all else, speaking to the manager."

Bettelucksecondtimearoundimherewaitingforu · 26/08/2023 15:59

BillaBongGirl · 26/08/2023 15:53

I think people are conflating the use of Karen with the misuse of Karen.

I can call a man a misogynist all day long, even if he’s not a misogynist. The act of my misusing it to insult him and personally attack him, doesn’t change the definition or usage of misogynist,

I can call anyone here a racist Nazi all day long too, that similarly doesn’t change the definition of or usage of the words racist or Nazi.

So stop with the whole argument that er well someone I heard of or know was called Karen and they weren’t being a Karen so that means Karen must be ageist and misogynist. No it doesn’t.

Bravo!!!

Bettelucksecondtimearoundimherewaitingforu · 26/08/2023 16:01

They even tried to say it is 'upsetting' if your name is Karen. Of course it bloody is, who is disagreeing with that? Absolutely none and the only thing YOU show is 'deflection' which is what I am challenging.

Obtula · 26/08/2023 16:02

Using Karen in a misogynistic way is the original and intended use of Karen.

BillaBongGirl · 26/08/2023 16:03

Obtula · 26/08/2023 15:53

Karen in 2019, post BBQ becky et al. Widespread, not racist, talking to the manager

www.wired.com/story/tropical-storm-karen-meme/

Tropical Storm Karen was linked to the meme Karen because it was literally a racist storm- look at its path and who it affected the most? The Black populations in the Caribbean and the Brown people in Puerto Rico. That’s why it was “funny” to all the posters- lol here is a Storm that is a Karen that is taking the lives of Black and Brown people. The storm it self ploughed through destroying the homes, flooding towns and killing Black/Brown people and then conveniently weakened to nothing by the time it hit the shores of whitebread USA.

LadyKenya · 26/08/2023 16:04

Posters on here objecting more to the use of the word Karen, than they do to posters suffering from racism is nothing new imo.

BillaBongGirl · 26/08/2023 16:05

Obtula · 26/08/2023 16:02

Using Karen in a misogynistic way is the original and intended use of Karen.

No. It was not and never was the original or intended use of the Karen meme.

Obtula · 26/08/2023 16:05

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Anonymouseposter · 26/08/2023 16:07

Well if my name was Karen I would be even more upset to have it used to describe the sort of nasty racist that gets a young boy lynched than used to ridicule me for having an opinion. There are plenty of things you could call such a person but why choose a name that could be the name of an ordinary reasonable person.