What are all pensioners getting another £300 this winter??

[F0RBIDDENFRUIT]

They are amongst the richest people in the country, yes there are poor pensioners but a lot of them are way richer than anyone else.

£300 more for energy, none of the old people I know need this, they all have more money than their children.

Just because they vote, that is the only reason they can be doing this.

It is not a benefit. It is paid for by NI contributions. You have to have paid enough of them (30 full qualifying years) to get a full pension. Those who haven’t, get a corresponding reduced rate of pension. Pensioners who have paid little or no NI get benefits to make up a poultry pension and live in real poverty. The State Pension is unlike Child Benefit, which is a ‘benefit’!

@fitzwilliamdarcy thank you for reflecting. If only more people had that ability 💐

Fitzwilliamdarcy I have come across pensioners like you describe-I'm glad you realise we aren't all the same, just as all 40 year olds aren't the same and have a variety of views.
While I'm on the historical perspective, some women have hit problems because the system was originally set up on the basis of a male breadwinner with a dependent housewife spouse and family.
Until 1979 women could opt to buy the "small stamp" so they were only covered for sickness and their pension was covered under their husband's insurance. This has changed now to treating everyone as an independent individual. It's been okay for women in a long marriage to a high earning spouse but women who have been divorced, dumped in middle age, widowed at just the wrong time etc. have got caught in the change and basically been screwed over.
It's a bit galling that a forum that is so focused on fairness to women can only see spoilt women who have been SAHMs and are living in comfort. MN can be so ageist and fail to see that older women have had their own struggles, which might be slightly different from the present day but are still real.

I wonder how many wealthy pensioners don't help their families out? All the ones I know do.

The thing is in your example @Anonymouseposter - while that is undoubtedly shit for those women, if they chose to pay the "small stamp" then that was the decision they took. They would be eligible for pension credit presumably? And anyway I am certainly not arguing for people who are genuinely in need to have anything taken away from them! I would happily see those pensioners get more help, along with extra help for younger people who need it too - as long as it was paid for by removing all the freebies (other than their pensions obviously) from the rich pensioners.

People paying the small stamp probably made that choice because they were skint at the time and didn’t have a crystal ball to see how things would change in the future. I do see your point about throwing money at people who don’t need it. Aren’t younger people on benefits going to get cost of living payments?

I was responding to TheThinkingGoblin who asserted that we were all saying Maths wrong because her education was so superior.
'Math' makes my teeth itch, as does 'Legos'.

The senior rail card can be used al day whereas the children's cards can't be used at peak times such as when they need to go to school.
The benefits are available whether they are used or not.
Younger people and families are not given these universal benefits. That's the point, that these groups are treated differently for political reasons.

We absolutely do need a discussion in relation to children living in poverty. It should be a key concern for any government. As you say we need a government prepared to address poverty rather than one that gives out universal benefits to pensioners while not supporting children and families.

Well my 89 year old parents definitely need it they live on state pensions, and feel the cold. You try running a home and paying for care (DM has dementia) on a modest income whilst grappling with failing health.
Unlike younger people at 89 they don't have the option to work part time etc to boost funds as young people do.
I know many, many elderly people who are struggling to make ends meet at the hardest time of life.

You sound horrible and entitled frankly and l sincerely hope that you do not have to face the severe hardship many old people do.

I really would help if there was an easy way to opt out of receiving the payment if you don't need it.

As it is we just give it to charity.

The senior rail card can be used al day whereas the children's cards can't be used at peak times such as when they need to go to school.

It can’t. A senior railcard can’t be used before 9.30am.

Just because it is a qualified benefit doesn't mean it is not a benefit. There is no "paying in" of NI to any kind of pot or anything like that. NI is an unhypothecated employment tax levied on both employees and employers and is used to pay for things now.

And just because it is a benefit doesn't mean it is undeserved or unnecessary. The fact that pensioners get their knickers in such a twist about the truth of what the state pension is just speaks to their prejudice about benefits and those that receive them rather than anything else.

The reality is that there is a carefully cultivated stereotype that pensioners are all poor and will sit in their freezing cold hovels unless they are given financial support. There are of course pensioners that are poor and need that support just as there are vulnerable people of all ages. There are also a burgeoning number of pensioners who are doing quite well for themselves and need these payments far less than a young family surviving on minimum wage employment in a high rent area.

We need to target support to those that are in need, not to a demographic at large that is generally on the political right.

I do think that pensioners need to realise that we are all finding it tough at the moment and are all experiencing the same rises in living costs. The differences is that working people in their middle age like me have had below inflation pay rises rather than index linked increases and are currently shouldering one of the highest tax burdens of any recent generation. The pips are squeaking across society.

I think that's better than leaving it with the government, wouldn't trust them with 30 pence.

So do we. It goes straight to the foodbank. At least we’re doing something useful with it which is more than the government would.

Same as the bus cards. All the bus drivers round here call them "Twirlies" as in "am I too early?"

Not all pensioners got, or will get, the COL payments. They are means tested. Pensioners would need to be on Pension Credit.

All pensioners get the Winter fuel allowance.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/cost-of-living-payment#pensioner-cost-of-living-payment

Not what it says here. It says if you are eligible for the winter fuel payment you will get a COL payment too. No mention of pension credit. Seems to be anyone born before a certain date.

Up until relatively recently, state retirement pensions were never grouped with benefits or classed as benefits.

I think it changed under Cameron's government

Means testing all pensioner benefits would costs a fortune in admin and process - which is why they don't do it.

I don't know all these millionaire pensioners, despite living in London, and I don't know that many that vote Tory.

There's a lot of urban myths about.

Younger people can increase their income by changing jobs etc. We've all been there, it's not easy but it's doable.

Pensioners often aren't capable, health wise, of getting work.

so that says £150 or £300 depending on circumstances.
so not £300

i worked with a woman only a few years older than me, bemoaning working tax credit, which began in 1997,
she never received it
therefore it wasnt fair!

The Winter Fuel Payment, is payable to various low income groups, including pensioners, if eligible. It also depends on the weather temperature. They would get a COL payment.

The Winter Fuel Allowance is paid to all pensioners, and would not guarantee a COL payment. Nor does it rely on weather.

Your parents clearly need the support.

But so do others in other demographics and it is far from simply a case of doing more work. We have 2.3 million working people in this country who are still so poor they need universal credit and many more who are sat just above that line.

I would rather money went to supporting more low income people than just blanket going to pensioners regardless of their financial circumstances.

https://www.gov.uk/winter-fuel-payment/eligibility

Says nothing like that here.

seems to be £500 or £600
so that might help for some of the fuel costs

@squirelnutkin11 young disabled people and carers frequently don't have the option for part time work either. Your parents should be help but so should others.