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AIBU?

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Original poster

I m right to give him notice aren't I?

77 replies

Lilly11a · 25/08/2023 04:18

I ve had someone employed since the new year for me .
Hours are 9-5.30pm with hour lunch - I m happy for people to go at 5 if work up to date .
I ve had issues with him with lateness and sickness which I had to give him a warning about at the beginning.
It has improved but he is still probably late once a week and sick a day a month ( which is now going through at ssp).
Work has picked up massively and I m having to do a lot of unpaid overtime to get something through, after which I do expect things will go back to normal.
He has had a bit more to do but has still been going at 5 - still fine with me if work is getting done .
I asked him to do something extra ,which he has done before , about 3.30pm that would have taken 10 mins .
He refused to do it and said his work load was too high .
After a 20 min somewhat circular conversation where I asked if his work load was high he wasn't staying till 530, it's that he doesn't like changing between tasks and the work can be done he just doesn't like doing it or the pace / the fact there is work all day .
It's also unfair that other people in different departments go earlier ( but anyone that works longer hours then him is nothing to do with him) and sitting at a desk 8 hours a day makes him ill.
After then discussing what happens if he gives notice and having a comment how can you monitor if I slack off - I ve had to say to him either give in your notice tomorrow or I ll give you notice.
I guess I m just frustrated that we almost seemed to be talking different languages and no doubt he would have gone home thinking how unfair it was .

OP posts:
Whoknowswhatanymore · 25/08/2023 04:29

Have you had any formal meetings with him to discuss his conduct? Listened to his concerns/ reasons why he is acting in this way? Offered support, set targets or put an improvement plan in place? This would be the starting point and then his conduct can be monitored and measured against the targets/plan over a period of time, say three months for instance. If his conduct improves that’s great, if it doesn’t, then another meeting would be held to ascertain why. Then you could start a dismissal process - does the company have a policy in place for this kind of thing? It may be worth contacting ACAS or similar to seek further advice as last thing you would want is some claim against you.

MintJulia · 25/08/2023 04:38

Is this someone in a first job? Or someone who has been working for a while.?

If a teenager, I'd make it clear I expected them to work until 5.30 and I'd put them on a PIP. If they are an adult, I'd give a written warning and then get rid of them.

I had one like that recently. Despite wfh, she would not accept that she needed to be on-line by 9am. She'd normally start at about 9.30, and on the days we were in the office. she's stroll in at 11.

There are plenty of people who'd love regular work and a decent contract. Don't waste time and effort on someone who can't be bothered.

Original poster
Lilly11a · 25/08/2023 04:44

Whoknowswhatanymore · 25/08/2023 04:29

Have you had any formal meetings with him to discuss his conduct? Listened to his concerns/ reasons why he is acting in this way? Offered support, set targets or put an improvement plan in place? This would be the starting point and then his conduct can be monitored and measured against the targets/plan over a period of time, say three months for instance. If his conduct improves that’s great, if it doesn’t, then another meeting would be held to ascertain why. Then you could start a dismissal process - does the company have a policy in place for this kind of thing? It may be worth contacting ACAS or similar to seek further advice as last thing you would want is some claim against you.

He has had a verbal warning previously for lateness and sickness .
This however is straight refusing to do a task that he has done before and falls within his job role . Not because he doesn't know how to do it he just doesn't want to do it ( it is completing a form we can put on our website to collect data ).
The consequence of this is either I have to do it now or we lose quite a lot of revenue .
He has only been employed for 9 months only so would not have any claim unless under a protected characteristic.
He doesn't want to do lots of different tasks - but we are a small business so that isn't possible with a full time job. He also finds working through 9-12 and then 1-5 without downtime except lunch difficult. I did then offer to reduce his hours but doesn't want the cut in pay.

OP posts:
Original poster
Lilly11a · 25/08/2023 04:52

MintJulia · 25/08/2023 04:38

Is this someone in a first job? Or someone who has been working for a while.?

If a teenager, I'd make it clear I expected them to work until 5.30 and I'd put them on a PIP. If they are an adult, I'd give a written warning and then get rid of them.

I had one like that recently. Despite wfh, she would not accept that she needed to be on-line by 9am. She'd normally start at about 9.30, and on the days we were in the office. she's stroll in at 11.

There are plenty of people who'd love regular work and a decent contract. Don't waste time and effort on someone who can't be bothered.

He is late 20s but this is his first job.

It's just such a foreign attitude to me.

The reason my job is so full on at the moment is we very nearly went into administration and got bought at the last minute.

Therefore I had six week of duedil late into the evenings and now we are trying to integrate into their systems- ie once this is done things will settle down for everyone but if this wasn't done noone would have a job now .

This has resulted obviously in some things changing but it's still within the job description and I haven't asked him to work beyond 1730 ever and I will always ensure he gets the hour lunch break.

OP posts:
Ragwort · 25/08/2023 04:58

Get rid, he sounds lazy and totally uninterested in his work. You are not being at all reasonable ... if he can't do his normal, expected tasks within his working hours then it's not going to get any better. Most of us have to do tasks we don't particularly enjoy and/or multi task several different aspects of a job. He seems totally unsuited to working in a small business. Plenty of people out there looking for work.

MintJulia · 25/08/2023 04:59

Well, he's had his warning. If he really wants the job, he will come in on time tomorrow, apologise for being an arse, and ask for another chance. If he doesn't, I'd give him notice. You can't afford to carry people.

Hollyhocksarenotmessy · 25/08/2023 05:48

Dismissing him is very low risk and as a small company you aren't really expected by ACAS to jump through the same hoops as a large organisation.

Working in HR, I'd say you are right. In my experience, performance plans etc etc can work if it's around skills, training, soft skills, needing a bit of extra support, or it's someone generally good who's got complacent. Nothing fixes a bad attitude or lack of work ethic.

pilates · 25/08/2023 05:52

Yes get rid. He won’t change.

Orange67 · 25/08/2023 06:42

People should either work til 5 or 5.30 - everyone, you need to be consistent for everyone, or you have no standing for him wanting to leave at 5.

Thehippowife · 25/08/2023 06:45

It’s time for him to move on. His work ethic will not change - it’s who he is .

Original poster
Lilly11a · 25/08/2023 06:51

Orange67 · 25/08/2023 06:42

People should either work til 5 or 5.30 - everyone, you need to be consistent for everyone, or you have no standing for him wanting to leave at 5.

This is a goodwill thing we put in place and not contractual. Everyone else if they have work to finish stays till 17.30 .

In any case, it's a moot point as he said the work can be done between 9-5 , he just doesn't want to work straight through ( except lunch ) without downtime .

OP posts:
Aaron95 · 25/08/2023 06:53

So you have a relatively new member of staff who is consistently late, refuses to work their hours and now is refusing to do something that falls within his job role. That last one is refusing to carry out a reasonable instruction which is gross misconduct.

Less than 2 years service makes the decision even easier. Arrange a disciplinary meeting and dismiss him.

HennyPenny1234 · 25/08/2023 06:58

The whole 5.00-5.30 thing needs to just be you work until 5.30

Fraaahnces · 25/08/2023 07:01

He needs to go. Entitled twerp thinking he gets to decide what tasks he feels like doing. Will be interesting to see if he is actually on task.

londonrach · 25/08/2023 07:02

You need to sort out the 5-5.30 thing but yes let him go. He won't improve and already been given notice.

TheBarbieEffect · 25/08/2023 07:02

HennyPenny1234 · 25/08/2023 06:58

The whole 5.00-5.30 thing needs to just be you work until 5.30

This. It’s too arbitrary and you might think you’re being nice but you’re not because people don’t know where they stand.

canfor · 25/08/2023 07:07

Don't sign yourself up for years of this...give him notice now and recruit again.

BrawnWild · 25/08/2023 07:07

Dismiss before he has been there too long.

A lot of people dont enjoy certain tasks but they have a good attitude and that's something you cant teach. He doesnt have a good attitude and he isnt pulling in the same direction as the company.

cushioncovers · 25/08/2023 07:10

Yes he needs to be let go. We've had a similar problem in my department of people joining us in their late 20's coming into the workforce for the first time after being a uni student since they left school. They seem to struggle with the rigidity of being employed and having set breaks etc. 2 of them didn't even pass their probation period because of sickness and lateness.

olympicsrock · 25/08/2023 07:12

There are solutions if he finds he needs a break more frequently

  1. Reduce his hours by 30 mins a day to allow him to take two 15 mins breaks mid morning and mid afternoon etc
  2. He splits his lunch break to have one 30 min break 11:30 - 12 and a further break 2:30 - 3pm
Alternatively he needs to go.
Weedoormatnomore · 25/08/2023 07:14

Think you do need to let him go but make sure you take advice as he might argue about it. Good luck

tenbob · 25/08/2023 07:19

Orange67 · 25/08/2023 06:42

People should either work til 5 or 5.30 - everyone, you need to be consistent for everyone, or you have no standing for him wanting to leave at 5.

Why should they? In some workplaces, that would be necessary but it’s absolutely not a blanket rule for ‘workload based’ jobs.

When you’ve done the work, go. While there is work to do, stay.

It obviously wouldn’t work in a care setting or call centre, but absolutely works in a lot of offices.

Also, plenty of people will work through lunch, or start earlier in order to get away a bit earlier so a blanket finish time punishes them for no reason

Hibiscrubbed · 25/08/2023 07:26

Get him gone. His work ethic is ‘shy’.

NotMadeOfStone · 25/08/2023 07:30

olympicsrock · 25/08/2023 07:12

There are solutions if he finds he needs a break more frequently

  1. Reduce his hours by 30 mins a day to allow him to take two 15 mins breaks mid morning and mid afternoon etc
  2. He splits his lunch break to have one 30 min break 11:30 - 12 and a further break 2:30 - 3pm
Alternatively he needs to go.

But why make concessions for someone who is refusing to do basic parts of their job? If he was an amazing asset to the team with timekeeping issues, maybe.

Gymmum82 · 25/08/2023 07:31

Get rid. The fact he’s in his late 20’s and this is his first job tells you all you need to know