I m right to give him notice aren't I?

[Lilly11a]

I ve had someone employed since the new year for me .
Hours are 9-5.30pm with hour lunch - I m happy for people to go at 5 if work up to date .
I ve had issues with him with lateness and sickness which I had to give him a warning about at the beginning.
It has improved but he is still probably late once a week and sick a day a month ( which is now going through at ssp).
Work has picked up massively and I m having to do a lot of unpaid overtime to get something through, after which I do expect things will go back to normal.
He has had a bit more to do but has still been going at 5 - still fine with me if work is getting done .
I asked him to do something extra ,which he has done before , about 3.30pm that would have taken 10 mins .
He refused to do it and said his work load was too high .
After a 20 min somewhat circular conversation where I asked if his work load was high he wasn't staying till 530, it's that he doesn't like changing between tasks and the work can be done he just doesn't like doing it or the pace / the fact there is work all day .
It's also unfair that other people in different departments go earlier ( but anyone that works longer hours then him is nothing to do with him) and sitting at a desk 8 hours a day makes him ill.
After then discussing what happens if he gives notice and having a comment how can you monitor if I slack off - I ve had to say to him either give in your notice tomorrow or I ll give you notice.
I guess I m just frustrated that we almost seemed to be talking different languages and no doubt he would have gone home thinking how unfair it was .

I'd get rid for the bad attitude alone...I recently sacked a new starter after just 2 weeks, she was doing 4-6 hour shifts on her feet, with ad hoc breaks, and complaining it was too hard to be on her feet all day - we work in hospitality! I then caught her rolling her eyes when I asked her to do something, if she had that attitude to begin with when she should have been at her best, what would she have been like down the road?!

There seems to be a lot of people now who just don't want to work. We find it hard to recruit full timers as even childless people in their 20s only want 25hrs, when I was that age with no responsibility I always worked full time and often had an extra bar job

Yeah, you need to scrap that "good will" 5 o'clock finish and enforce the 5.30 finish across the board. You can say it's because the good will gesture was being abused by people who hadn't finished their work.

He doesn't sound as if he is suited to an office job. Perhaps better for him to find work elsewhere

Ps he's late 20d and this is his first job? Ref flag

Sure. All valid points but this is a small business and he sounds unsuitable and he's not value for money

Surely others will begrudge him with this attitu

As long as you have followed the disciplinary/absence process and he does not have a protected characteristic you can let him go. However reading between the lines I wonder it may be more than naivety at play.

Absolutely

I know I'm old but I'm trying to imagine behaving the way he's done in any of my former jobs. I'd have been out on my ear in a heartbeat

And anywhere I've worked, I've been ready to go before my actual start time and if work needed finishing I'd stay and get it done.

And decent companies/employers recognised that in my pay reviews...

How much pandering do you have to do with someone if the only reason he doesn't work very hard is because he doesn't want to?

Im not sure it’s fair anymore to penalise people for taking sick days

It is if they aren’t actually sick, or are taking so much time off they can’t do their job! Most employers will have a sickness management policy - X number of days off in however many weeks will trigger it. It’s 6 days off in 6 months in my trust. Otherwise you end up with somebody off sick for months at a time and no policy to follow to manage it.

We have somebody who worked with us for 3 weeks then went off sick with stress - still off 8 months later and we are only getting rid of her at the end of Sept (we have six months’ full pay and six months’ half pay). Are you saying we should just keep her in post forever, when she is clearly never coming back? We can’t fill her role while she is sitting in it.

In most jobs it’s understood that it’s all hands on deck when there is a busy period / changes within the business. He’s just not taking this on board. It doesn’t work that way. You are right.

i do wonder if anyone has ever explained that to him.

I have come to realise that while I know that, and lots of people i work with know that, a lot of others (especially the younger ones and trainees) need to have it spelled out to them.

And sometimes I've been all hands on decking it like mad for months, then ask to leave an hour early for an appointment to a flat refusal. Which doesn't make me want to do that again.

Yes from what you say I think dismissal would be reasonable. Late once a week would have been enough grounds weeks ago it seems.

I’m not sure I want to employ anyone so lacking in common sense that they need it spelt out to them that they need to arrive on time and do their work before they leave

Absolutely get rid. I run a small bussiness and I have learned the very hard/expensive lesson to not listen to the warning signs

You are doing the right thing.
Refusing to do a task within his role is not acceptable, at all.
I have known similar attitudes.
Instead of them molding themselves around the workplace dynamics, they want (almost demand...) the world to stop and bend around their ways.
I cannot understand it.
For example, I would find difficult to work straight without a little break in the morning. I usually take 15 min mid morning coffee break and 30 min lunch.
If I am exhausted, I will make another coffee mid afternoon and drink it at my desk. But if I were to work for you, I would put all my will to do as you have set. And I will get used to it. I would never ever like it, neither it will ever improve my performance, but I would do it, without fussing. Not sure why there are quite a big chunk of people around there that think the company should change their break policy for them....

I sacked a graduate who seemed to feel personally offended by her having to have a regular start time, and me not being cool with her spending half the day texting her boyfriend from the loo.

I am not a babysitter, and people in their 20s really should have some understanding of following rules, after all they've been to school/college/Uni/ had part time jobs before.

Get rid quickly. He's shot himself in the foot by working less than his contracted hours and refusing to do a task that's part of his normal job. If he threatens legal unfair dismissal he'll get nowhere.
He doesn't even seem to like the job.

His official hours are until 5.30. They are allowed to leave early if the work is done. His isn't. She is consistent.

Yes time for him to go

It is when you have people taking the mick and others who won’t.

It’s 10 hours difference per month. Very silly.

Update , I had a meeting with him with HR and the end result is he left today. We ve agreed to pay notice and that he doesn't have to work it .

He said that he used to see why we had to do the work but now doesn't see the point .

For those of you mentioning 15 min breaks in the morning and afternoon and then taking half hour lunch , that would have been fine if he asked for it .
What the implication was breaks in addition to the hour lunch .

100% no protected characteristics ( disclosed at any rate ), I did ask if there was anything I should know as to why he was ill or late so much .

Most of the time it would be the day after the weekend so I suspect it was lifestyle related .

Anycase onwards and upwards.

Thanks for the update and I hope the replacement is more committed

What a weird mentality. He wants the money but doesn’t want to work. Good riddance to bad rubbish. There are plenty of people who do want to work so I’m sure you will find someone more suitable.

He 'didn't see the point of the work'

He is late 20s but this is his first job

Relieved to see he's now gone, but unless there was a very good reason for the above I'd have rejected him for that alone

You'd almost hope the "just doesn't want to do it" was a joke, except I've met too many like this myself

Spare a thought for his next employer though ...

Yeah if he doesn't get a better attitude he will spend his entire life wondering why he can't hold down a job.