Raging about shared parental pay - has anyone challenged this (vs mat leave policy)

[Soundbathfan]

The nhs mat policy whilst better than many is much crapper than many too
My husband gets better mat leave in his medium sized private tech company than I do.
His company don't have a shared parental pay policy which I am angry about. He has asked about this and has been sent a shared parental leave notification form but this doesn't include anything about pay (which I'm assuming will be stat rate)
Other similar companies to his DO offer comparative mat and parental pay.
Has anyone ever challenged an employer on their offer and lack of comparability to mat policy?
He is the first person ever to have asked about this in his male dominated organisation
Thanks for any advice you have :)

Okay, well I don't see how it's in any way appropriate for you to personally challenge anything to do with the compensation your husbands company offers. You don't work for them.

My comments are based on what you said earlier and made it sound like you plan to directly get involved:

Extremely helpful thank you. Did you challenge this yourself or did DH do it? Slight aside but my DH is not particularly assertive so wondering how much to get directly involved

Fair enough and as I've stated since, this would be me supporting my husband to raise this issue with his own company ;)

Quite. I thought my teacher maternity pay of 12 weeks half pay was good until I spoke to other people!

It's funny that it's only now I'm fully realising how rigged the system is against women. What a naive fool I am!
Looks like if I go onto SPL policy I would lose my half pay for months 3-6 even if I don't take all that time off.
Hilarious really.

I’ve not RTFT and don’t have time atm to find links, but I’m certain this has been unsuccessfully challenged. DH’s work has a similar policy and one of his employees questioned it and ended up accepting it as case precedent meant they were within their rights to adopt this policy.

I truly think it’s disgusting and remains one of the significant reasons women remain behind in the workplace as dads are not financially incentivised to take long periods of time off in the same way mums are.

My workplace as the same shared parental policy as maternity which I think is the right thing to do, but useless for me as I’d be the mother claiming maternity pay anyway!

@Soundbathfan you are not uncommon in that you are of a generation that benefitted from equal opportunity in school, further education and work and it is at this point you realise women are still discriminated against.

To correct some posters the op is entitled to mat leave until she decides to opt for SPL. The interplay between Mat leave & pay and Shared Parental leave & pay is complex. The best way to work it out is using the ACAS templates https://www.acas.org.uk/shared-parental-leave-form-templates

One thing to bear in mind are you get SPLIT days and taking these during the nil pay portion of shared parental leave can be used to boost income.

OP it’s worth your DH confirming he would be paid full pay for SPLIT days.

You’re a doctor 😱surely you of all people know that maternity leave is as much about mothers recovery as babies care. Ok, post 6 months then it’s more about babies
BUT when I had my dcs in 1990s, we got 29 weeks (I think but roughly 6 months) by law. Nhs policy was unpaid after that but eqllyan exception. In my private company it was this 6 months max, and no parent wrap leave at all
the law was changed to give rights to mothers to up to 12 months to encourage breastfeeding and dealing with many mothers (1 in10) with PND (including myself) who were still trying to deal with mental health issues- I went back to work with barely treated pnd as had only just been finally diagnosed at 4 months post partum

fathers leave should include an element of 2 things imho

1. caring for baby once 6 months maternity period needed for mother ends- up to 6 months at SMP
2. up to 3-4 emergency leave during first 6 months at request to deal with care for family and mother in emergency situations like PND, prem babies, birth injuries etc . This should’ve paid at same level as maternity leave pay for mothers in same company

it might feel “unfair”. Seems to me you’re pissed off and disappointed that you’re assumption your dh would be paid same as mothers in his company is incorrect and you’ve realised too late you’re financially buggered

o agree with other, DH has nothing to loose to ask about a policy change , but company can ignore. Remember this, most maternity rights were achieved by mothers fighting for them, putting heads on line - but in most cases they had nothing to loose- quite literally if they failed in the objective they’d have to give up work anyway . This was case when me and 3 other mums took on rights to work part time with my company ate d of 6 month maternity - id have had to quit if we’d failed. We won and I’m incredibly proud that I helped path the way for future generations of women in my company. But me and 3 other mums were “high fliers” and valuable assets so we had influence

I think father leave is lagging behind because most men will not stick their necks on line all the way to risk loosing their job , because they don’t have same stakes. They’re not breastfeeding, suffering with birth injuries or PND etc

your argument solution lies with your dh actions- how far and willing is he to push this and how much leveredge has he . He may not succeed for this child . But a small stone rolling can gain momentum to make a change for your next child or other fathers

Apple... I won't be up shit creek financially. I can and will pick up private work and I do have savings. My point is why should this disparity exist in the first place.
The latter end of your post is inspiring and DH and I will be raising this with his employer in the hope of a more forward thinking future even if it doesn't directly affect us.

Thank you! This is incredibly useful

Whilst I sort of agree,you’re are ignoring that having a baby is always going to discriminate on women by nature of her sex. Men do not get pregnant. They provide precisely 1 small Gamate to the whole process and the rest is grown by the mother- all 7lb of flesh, bones,brain, etc. babies don’t grow magically and pregnant women are not “carrying” a child- it is essentially a parasitic relationship and it has a major impact on a mothers body for up to (as recent research shows) 12 months and more if breastfeeding or birth injuries.
aaying that mothers should have equal rights to fathers is ignoring biology
maternity leave is about recognising women have specific needs as a consequence of their sexual and ensuring this is catered for under employment law to ens he ore rights to recovery and breastfeeding and provide financial protection to ensure she is not shafted by her employers

there is Much wrong with maternity leave and paternity leave and improvements are needed

qe have a massive issue with gender pay discrepancy. And there is a massive battle to fight to close this including unconscious bias

BUT to argue this on basis that men and women should be treated the SAME in name of equality is ignoring sex . Women need to be treated “fairly” in law, their own right protected and strengthened based on principle that their sex means they have specific needs that men don’t have

This is our policy which seems to make sense, and allows the partner the same as the mother, but cannot be taken concurrently, so i guess should the mother only get 3 months full pay from her employer, here the partner would be able to take the next 3 months on full pay.

Up to 26 weeks of Shared Parental Pay (ShPP) at the full rate and up to 13 weeks at the statutory rate can be claimed at any time that SPL is taken, making a maximum of 39 weeks of ShPP in total. If there have been weeks since the child’s birth (or adoption) for which any of occupational maternity pay, statutory maternity pay, maternity allowance or statutory adoption pay has already been claimed by or paid to the child’s mother or the principle adopter then that number of weeks is deducted from the maximum of 39 weeks.

The maximum of ShPP at the full pay rate that can be claimed is 26 weeks, however if there have been weeks since the child’s birth (or adoption) for which any of occupational maternity pay, occupational adoption pay, statutory maternity pay, maternity allowance or statutory adoption pay has already been claimed or paid then that number of weeks is deducted from the 26 weeks at full pay rate.

Oh absolutely it won’t solve the problem, and women generally are more predisposed to want the time at home for all the reasons you mentioned. But some women aren’t, and until there is a more equal risk that a man might take a significant chunk of time off when they have a baby, then we have no chance of equality. You only need to look on Mumsnet to see a wealth of posters saying they agree that employers should pass over pregnant candidates or pregnant candidates shouldn’t be entertained for promotion as the expectation is they will then be taking a year off. This logic is undoubtedly applied to newlyweds and women of child bearing age too, but perhaps less overtly.

Some women want to go back to work. I went back after 6 months when my enhanced maternity ran out as I was the higher earner and it made more sense for DH for drop to stat than it did for me. That’s not the norm though as women are often the lower earner. If both mum and dad got 6 months at full pay (for example) then I think we’d see a lot more dads taking long periods off too - which is good for dad and baby. It would see mums going back to work earlier, which might not suit everyone, but it’d be more of a discussion than assuming mum takes a full year and inevitably sets her career back.

That is the point of SPL though - you would forfeit months 3-6 by giving them to your DH. Then it's up to his employer to decide what they pay for months 3-6 of SPL. Every day he take is a day you give up.

Jennifer I know I would forfeit a period but I thought it could be taken in discontinuous blocks, so in other words I could go back at month 4 for example and continue at my half pay.
But this doesn't appear to be the case

While DH goes back to work having taken eg one month off

So you take months 1-3 (half pay)
He takes month 4 (up to his employer)
Then you take months 5 and 6?

You'd only get months 5 and 6 at half pay if your SPL mirrors your maternity policy.

Adoptive parents and those who have used a surrogate get the same benefits, it's not just about giving birth.

@Soundbathfan @JenniferBarkley
The starting point for both Mat leave and shared parental leave is the statutory entitlement. Then you look at statutory pay then occupational pay.

The mother has to take SML ( and SMP) from the date she starts maternity leave until 2 weeks after the birth. From that point she can opt for SShPL and SShPP.

The father/partner is entitled to 2 weeks paternity leave & pay - must be taken within 56 days of the birth. Traditionally taken as the 2 weeks after birth mirroring the compulsory 2 weeks SML & SMP.

SShPL is 52 weeks less any weeks of SML I.e. 50 weeks or less depending how much SML is taken before the birth.

You split the SShPL between the mother and partner. It can be taken at the same time or alternating. For example if the mother has 2 weeks SML the father 2 weeks SPL there are 50 weeks SShPL and both could take 25 weeks at the same time - at 27 weeks all entitlement is exhausted. However, they could alternate taking 4 weeks each so covering 12 months. The mother could take the first 26 weeks and the partner the remaining.

Once you have worked out the leave then you apply the pay element. Unlike SMP which is paid 6 weeks @ 9/10ths and 33 weeks @SMP concurrently you have more choice which weeks of SShPL are paid as SShPP. So work out how many weeks of SShPP you have left after deducting weeks SMP and allocate them to the weeks of SShPL. You can have 4 weeks paid 4 weeks unpaid 4 weeks paid etc or both be paid at the same time.

A key factor are the rules around occupational pay e.g. OShPP. Normally this follows the rules for SShPP because OShPP is paid as a top up to the statutory payment. Then you look at working KIT/SPLIT days when you are on unpaid SShPL, remember you may get tax rebates as your earnings will be lower.

Finally remember you accrue annual leave and can use this to extend both you and your partners time at home or phase return to work. Again tax rebates can maximise income from Annual Leave.

I have tried to make this as clear as I can because it is complicated and I don’t know your employers rules, your exact dates etc. What you need to do is think through using the ACAS guide and then talk to yours and DHs HR teams to confirm you have got it right.

HTHs

@Goldencup maternity leave and pay are slightly different to adoption leave & pay. Yes they are based on the same principles but maternity leave and pay do acknowledge a woman has given birth e.g. the compulsory 2 weeks after birth, risk assessments, anti natal appointments.

@Soundbathfan @JenniferBarkley you can go back to work then resume SShPL & receive SShPP plus occupational pay if that is how you have scheduled it and your employers policy allows it. You can’t do that with Mat leave.

The best thing that could happen would be for men to get their own entitlement to leave, for it to be broadly similar within a workplace & for it to cover a decent period of time with reasonable pay.

I mean nhs is very generous so unlike to get much comparable. I think most places it’s only statutory for shared there’s a lot of mat pay the same

He should challenge it. They might change it for him depending whether they want to improve their diversity rating. It’s worth asking.

Sorry but if you don't want to be the primary caregiver to your newborn baby then maybe you shouldn't be having a baby. It's not like you are on the breadline if you're a doctor. Surely you can afford a few months off.

Just take the 6 months the NHS gives you then let your partner take 3 months on SMP. As you earn more than him that will be better than you staying off on SMP.

What a bizarre thing to say. Why should women only have children if they’ll be the primary caregiver?