The word “lionesses” makes me cringe

[bottledjoyy]

I’m sorry, I know this is irrational but something about it just makes me cringe so much. I enjoyed watching the women’s football and am all for it, but for some reason the term “Lionesses” makes me shudder with cringe.
I feel like it just makes it feel a bit infantilising? I know it’s Three Lions but not like we constantly refers to the men’s team as “the lions”. I dunno it just seems patronising and cringe.

Just me? Haha

@Dotjones that's snappy and rolls off the tongue!

I wonder one of the reasons names are becoming more prominent as the ladies' teams are becoming more prominent so need to distinguish between the men's and women's teams. A good few years ago, unless you were really into women's football you wouldn't really see any mention of their teams. Now much more prominent

The Lionesses have been the Lionesses for at least the last decade, which is when it properly became the more "mainstream" way they were referred to but they have been referred to this way before that ... Just because some people have only just cottoned on to their existence since the Euros a couple of years ago doesn't mean that the nickname they've been known by for over 10 years should be removed because some people don't like it

Totally agree. What's wrong with just "England"? Moreso because lions are not native to the UK, so I can't see why the name was chosen at all. Except I suppose "The Rabbits" or "The Squirrels" or "The Muntjacs" isn't as impressive :)

I dont like it as Lionesses is a subset of Lion

Three lions is the FA logo. Knights in medieval times used lions as an emblem. Does Richard the Lionheart sound familiar? It’s all about representing tenacity, ferocity and strength. The female form means exactly the same so not a cuddly toy or juvenile in my view. It’s just a word to differentiate the women’s team. They haven’t complained as far as I know.

The Dutch also have a lioness as a logo. It’s an animal respected for its attributes the world over from Africa to USA.

What's wrong with just "England"? Moreso because lions are not native to the UK, so I can't see why the name was chosen at all. Except I suppose "The Rabbits" or "The Squirrels" or "The Muntjacs" isn't as impressive :)

They were chosen as they are our national animal, they wear the three lions on their shirts and also embody the kind of attitude you want a football team to have - strength, speed, power, agility, working as a team and and having a strong work ethic to support each other ... why would you want a team to be referred to as a prey animal rather than a top predator?

As for why not just call them England ... what happens when, as in 2012 when the Lionesses name really took off, you have both male and female teams playing in games in the same competition at the same time and you need a way to differentiate... Nobody is going to keep saying "England men" or "England women" they're going to default to "England" and "England women" because for many the default is still that football = men. By claiming the Lioness name and using it even when the men's team don't use the Lions then they are giving themselves an indelible identity that can't be confused for the men.

If I say "I think the England team are brilliant" then I could be refering to either team but if I say "I think the Lionesses are brilliant" then there is no way anyone could mistake my praise for the women's team as being intended for the men.

I dont like it as Lionesses is a subset of Lion

It's not our fault that English defaults to the male term though ... Other languages have gendered language from the off so you know whether you're discussing male or female players just from the words without the qualifiers of male/female - eg in Spanish "player" will be gendered whether you're talking about a male player jugador or a female player jugadora so you don't need to qualify it.

If we referred to them as the Lions then people would complain we were referring to the women's team by the male animal term and erasing the women's identity - why use a male term for a female team when there is a specific word for a female lion they could keep using?

Last time I checked, dragons aren't native to Wales, or unicorns to Scotland either...

Decade is not much is it. GIving articifial name to something that does not need it is just that. The team does not need to have a stupid name to people can feel proud in something- because this is it, people jumping on a bandwagon about a sport they only care about since last week.

I hope for Dragonesses and Unicornesses to pop up in the news.

Football teams have nicknames. Potters, Canaries, Hatters, Black Cats, Robins, Foxes, Magpies to name a few.

@Wouldyouguess what do you think about the All Blacks?

It makes me cringe because it constantly refers to the fact that they are women. They aren't just the bog standard England Team, no, that's reserved for the men. They are the lionESSES. Just the bog standard team isn't for women!

100% it's just patronising

The point being that some of us have been using this "stupid name" in the main stream for over a decade and yet now the Lionesses have done well and everyone has jumped on the bandwagon all the Johnny-vome-Latelys have decided we should change or stop using the name because they don't like it ...

Well what about those of us who do like it and have been using it for longer than many of the complainers have even known (or cared) about women's football?

My DD watched her first Lionesses game aged 4 when I took her to the Euros in 2013, I still have her little England shirt with Yankey on the back, and she has only ever known them as the Lionesses and is proud to be able to say she has watched some of those World Cup finalists since the days when they crashed out, bottom of the group in the Euros, and seen them go from that to Euro winners and WC finalists, why should she be told she shouldn't refer to them as the Lionesses any more because some people think it's a stupid name?

You could also have referred them to as England just like the men team and that would be just fine. Lionesses just sound so corny. You can refer to them in any way you want, still hoping for Unicornesses dream to happen.

@Wouldyouguess do you follow football?

Do you think all national team names should be got rid of?

But I don't want to refer to them as England, I want to keep using the nickname they've had for years ... And as yet nobody has given any good reason why they shouldn't continue to be the Lionesses as match attending fans have referred to them as for years.

My point is, using the Lioness nickname hurts nobody - if you don't like it then you don't have to use it but why belittle or castigate those who do like it and do use it, especially those of us who have been attending Lionesses games and supporting the players for years.

Laughing out loud at that one. Looks like it’s time for wholesale root and branch reform. 😂

Most disappointing

Why do women have to deny they are women? We keep hearing how women’s football is not the same as the men’s game. No it isn’t so accept that lionesses separates them from the men. What’s in a name anyway? Surely what happens on the pitch is what matters. The name is a sideshow.

Before 2012, the FA used the Three Lions hashtag for both teams. They were aware the women had no identity and were largely absent on social media. The FA Digital marketing came up with Lionesses hashtag snd then developed it to include it in the shirts and push forward the marketing of women’s game. Carping about it now is to not understand the history. It’s been successful. So would you prefer the women to be under the men’s marketing? They would be second best if they were.

I understand that, and it’s one reason that I don’t think the team should be criticized for the widespread use of the nickname.

But I do think a situation like they have in the US, where it’s just the US Men’s National Team or US Women’s National Team is more desirable, and treats neither team as the default US team.

I appreciate that the ‘Lionesses’ may be a more marketable brand, and perhaps the ends justify the means, but I’d still prefer if the men’s team wasn’t the accepted default, synonymous with England in international football. Maybe that will come in the future.

No issue at all.

Male lions look beautiful but are just posers
Female lions are bad ass and hunt....

But I do think a situation like they have in the US, where it’s just the US Men’s National Team or US Women’s National Team is more desirable, and treats neither team as the default US team

And what about in other countries where they both use nicknames?

Eg in NZ where the football teams are the All Whites/Football Ferns and the rugby union teams are the All Blacks/Black Ferns

Neither team is the default national team, but because all of the teams use their nicknames none are referred to as the NZ NT, implying that they are the default team.

The issue with the Lionesses seems to stem from the fact the men's team don't regularly use the "Three Lions" nickname in the same way the Lionesses are in regards to it being their main identity, due to the fact "The Lions" is more synonymous with the B&I Lions rugby team so doesn't have the same marketability as the Lionesses.

That should not mean that the women's team can't use their nickname, it should encourage people to use it more to show just how popular they are and that we then have to start using the qualifier 'England men's team' when discussing them.