The word “lionesses” makes me cringe

[bottledjoyy]

I’m sorry, I know this is irrational but something about it just makes me cringe so much. I enjoyed watching the women’s football and am all for it, but for some reason the term “Lionesses” makes me shudder with cringe.
I feel like it just makes it feel a bit infantilising? I know it’s Three Lions but not like we constantly refers to the men’s team as “the lions”. I dunno it just seems patronising and cringe.

Just me? Haha

Oh!

I am someone who finds things cringe relatively easily but I don’t think this is. Sports teams have always had nicknames.

Man Utd are the Red Devils for example.

I'm pleased that they are all women called the female name of an animal. How long will it be before the trans police get involved?!

Man U are not referred to as the Red Devils so much in the media though, really.

The England women's team are referred to as 'The lionesses' in the media much more often than they are just called 'England'.

The problem is it just draws attention to them being female, rather than the fact that they are playing for England.

It's like 'hey, you're GIRLS (and you play for England!)' rather than 'you are a professional football team representing your country'.

It has a horrible twang of 'you go girls' about it.

Men don't have to deal with that nonsense. They just play for their country and are respected for that in itself.

Agree with all of this.

Also bear in mind there’s been a hard push to promote women’s football in recent years because for a long time the public has been fairly disinterested in it. There’s still a very very very long way to go to even begin to approach parity.

So when we talk about England, it’s a bit wordy to keep saying England’s senior women’s team so Lionesses is an equivalent and catchy nickname - as has been proven. More or less every football club has a nickname and frequently the nicknames are used rather than the proper name.

The England men’s team is known as Three Lions. That’s no secret - everyone knows the bloody song even if you don’t follow the sport! Therefore Lionesses seems like the obvious choice for the women’s team surely?? And as PP have said, lionesses certainly aren’t lesser than lions!!!

There are still lots of problems with sexism and misogyny in football but calling our women’s senior team the Lionesses seems appropriate and in keeping with the sport.

I think it’s possibly because it’s a fairly new nickname (at least to the mainstream public). I always find that when you first start hearing a new nickname it sounds a bit cringy. It’s like having a mate called Kathleen who’s been called Kath or Kathy her whole life, and then one day she announces she’d like people to call her Lena as a nickname (this is a real life example btw). It’s feels icky and weird, and just artificial but after a while you stop noticing and it just becomes their normal name.

The England women's team are referred to as 'The lionesses' in the media much more often than they are just called 'England'.

Yes, as someone uninterested in football I didn’t actually believe that England were referred to as ‘the Three Lions’ until I googled it. The song I know, obviously, but the reference is to the emblem. Whereas you’d have to be living under a rock to have missed the Lionesses.

I was going to post this exact thread! It really pisses me off. One of the players was being interviewed on the news last week and the text said her name and then “lioness” underneath it. Why not “England player” they they would have with a bloke?

You don’t see the words “Harry Kane - Lion” on screen when he’s being interviewed!

It comes across like women’s football is the kids version of real football

I'm totally with you.

The whole current hype around them is weird and sexist in my opinion. It reminds me of the clapping for the NHS during covid, people suddenly bandwagoning onto something in order to be a bit right on and show that they are doing what everyone else is.

Years and years of being sidelined and all of sudden not only is female football being recognised (great) but everyone is falling over themselves to say how wonderful it is, 'our lionesses' and all this shit. Like they're a national treasure that's special just by dint of being female. "The lionesses" is cutesy and the term has an implication of wow aren't these women fierce trailblazers... No they are just women who have slogged away in a sport almost all of you ignored for years. People banging on about how they're ready to watch the lionesses at the weekend as though it's almost a good deed. Again it's good there has been a successful PR shift but it's also reminded me again how so many people are so boring and will literally get into anything that other people say they should.

I don't know it's just so patronising. Everyone has suddenly discovered female football and is worshipping these women who have been largely ignored by the very same people for years. They didn't suddenly appear, parachuting in to show the world female sport is worth watching. They trained and trained with very little mainstream recognition until it became trendy to do so. A lot of the positive energy around them therefore feels inauthentic and linked more to it suddenly being cool to be into female football rather than genuine. The name and it's implications add to that for me.

Nope a Matilda isn't a female kangaroo. A well loved Aussie song is " Waltzing Matilda" which is the reason for using that name. Not everything in Australia is related to kangaroos.

It's the same with all the stupid names the T20 cricket teams have got .

GOD YES ME TOO.

I wonder how they feel about it?

It is not infantilising. Lionesses are adults.

It only makes them sound "lesser" if on some level you think the male version is superior.

They are “England.” On the match schedules, on the TV screen when they play, everywhere official it just says “England.”

Would you ask why the “All Blacks” can’t be “New Zealand”?

Lionesses do all the work, let the males get the benefit, and stand aside when their cubs are killed by males. Not exactly aspirational!

Omg op I thought I was the only one so I've never said aloud that I think it's cringey, I can't even explain why I feel that way I don't think I think it's sexist at all - I just hate it!

OMG I thought I was the only one, feeling like I wanna throw up in my mouth every time I hear it .

Would females be All Blackesses or something?

Are you Australian? If so I suspect you’re somewhat younger than me. As I say, Matilda was the Commonwealth Games mascot and was also a character in a film when I was a child.

Do you seriously think I haven’t heard of Waltzing Matilda? 😂 You’ll be trying to tell me who Eric Bogle is next…

This is internalised sexism. Not because they are called lionesses - but because so many of you see that as being lesser than the men - because you see it cringe worthy.
The other factor is that England women probably don't want to be referred to as 'England women' because the default position of the 'England team' is that its men. Therefore they have to be referred to as a team name to hold them as an entity in their own right and to give them credit when they achieve it rather than beimg a subsidary of the mens team . Yes they are England - but they are underdogs when compared to the men's team - work harder for less pay, work harder to be taken seriously but still not, work harder to be visible, but still not, unless a photo is taken of them being kissed....
These women are playing two games - on the pitch and off, and whilst I don't watch either sex play, they are truly living up to their team name and are not 'just' England women's team. They are their own team, their own distinguished team - the lionesses.

So child rearing and defending them from predators isn’t “work” when the male of the species is doing it?

How was this edited???

That's disingenuous as there isn't a direct male/female dichotomy for ABs like there is for Lions/Lionesses but I'll assume that you're asking a genuine question because any rugby fan knows that the NZ women are the Black Ferns as the women's teams are all 'Fern' nicknames whereas the men's are more colour based.

Everyone knows about the All Blacks because rugby is a much bigger sport than football in NZ, but the direct equivalent would be to the football teams which are the All Whites and Football Ferns.

In Rugby the NZMNT are the All Blacks and the NZWNT are the Black Ferns

In football the NZMNT are the All Whites
and the NZWNT are the Football Ferns

The other major sports in NZ are cricket and netball - the men's cricket team are the Black Caps and the women's are the White Ferns; the netball team are the Silver Ferns

None of the women have an issue with their names being fern based as the silver fern is a symbol of New Zealand's national identity and to Māori, the fern stood for strength, stubborn resistance, and enduring power ... Not a bad thing to be named for.

Thank you ☺️

Yes, I agree there is a lot of internalised sexism on display on this thread.

It was a bit of a roll eye question as I find the word Lioness infantile and pointless, and also mostly used by people who has less than zero interest in female football prior and now jump on the bandwagon full of pride ( but I bet they dont campaign for better pay for female football players).
NZ names actually seem like they are a thing and thank you for explaining. THis is what I was sort of thinking, that some names actually dont sound ridiculous, but Lionesses does for some reason.
Even looking at the suggested threads below 😷