The word “lionesses” makes me cringe

[bottledjoyy]

I’m sorry, I know this is irrational but something about it just makes me cringe so much. I enjoyed watching the women’s football and am all for it, but for some reason the term “Lionesses” makes me shudder with cringe.
I feel like it just makes it feel a bit infantilising? I know it’s Three Lions but not like we constantly refers to the men’s team as “the lions”. I dunno it just seems patronising and cringe.

Just me? Haha

I can’t articulate myself, but I feel very similar OP. I’d been wondering if it’s because it’s got 4 syllables? It’s so bloody clunky and forced to say.

While I understand why it feels cringe. But I can also appreciate the branding and how well it is working.

Also the whole nicknames for teams are taking off. In my home country the media is calling the men's basketball, women's and men's football, men's and woman ice hockey with their team nicknames. Others are still just the sports and national team.

NZ names actually seem like they are a thing and thank you for explaining. THis is what I was sort of thinking, that some names actually dont sound ridiculous, but Lionesses does for some reason.

But why do you think "Lionesses" sounds ridiculous?

Personally I feel like people are jumping on the bandwagon of putting the women's team down for their name. Because we have not had anywhere near the amount of publicity for the team before it is not second nature to think Lionesses = EWNT because the men's team doesn't really use their nickname as they have never really needed a distinction beyond "the England football team" (as opposed to the rugby/cricket etc team) so it still sounds alien to many people.

Women's football, and sport in general, has not been nearly as well publicised or supported and many teams, at a league level, have been incorporated into existing men's teams (the WSL has only existed for 13yrs) so they were the default and the women's teams needed to be distinguished from them by adding the "women" to their team name - eg Man Utd Vs Man Utd Women.

With other teams they tend to use their nicknames more so the different names used seem more natural as both mens and womens teams use them (eg All Blacks/Black Ferns; Socceroos/Matildas) whereas we tend to only use the Lionesses for the women's team as the men's team aren't usually referred to as the Lions as "The Lions" is more commonly used to refer to the rugby team. The Lionesses only really came into common parlance in 2012 because the men were playing in Euro 2012 and the women were playing in the Euro 2013 qualifiers at the same time and it was a way to differentiate between the two to use #Lionesses to denote the women's games and make it easier for fans of the women's games to find other people talking about them, as opposed to the men's team.

Either way, I think it's quite sad to see that people are denigrating the fact we are using a term that has national significance (as the Lion is the national animal of England) and is an animal that has so many qualities we would want to see in our sports women - strong, fast, hunters with a strong work ethic and need to work as a team - because they see "lionesses" as less than "lions" in some way.

I think sadly you have been brainwashed to consider anything female is weak and infantile. Their is nothing weak or infantile about lionesses.
We need to start to understand that to be feminist and equal we have to not think anything female is pathetic.

Great post @melj1213 and I also agree with you @penelopelady

"Lionesses" makes me cringe too, and it's got too many syllables to sound snappy.

So what do you (and I mean this as a general you to all posters who hate the name) suggest we use instead?

Lionesses may not be the shortest nickname ever but it's a hell of a lot snappier than "England Women's National Football Team"

I kno what you mean but I think the Matildas is even worse.

It's cringe.

It reminds me of the generic lion and wolf tattoos people get because the animals look cool. So so cringe.

Not to diminish their achievements but the name itself rubs me the wrong way. Surprised that it's not just me

I dont think it'slesser, it's just a stupid name.

They are in a harem to a dominant male that if they take over from another lion 'king' will kill cubs that aren't his own.

https://lionaid.org/faqs_lions/why-do-male-lions-kill-cubs.htm

Overthinking it a bit aren’t you?

Aussie here, love the Matilda’s. but Lionesses, wtf, sound like someone with a lisp. Cringeworthy.
well done to the team though.

I think it's just a marketing ploy to make them sound more compelling and to pretend they generate as much interest and excitement as the mens' game. A quick straw pole of the large office I'm currently in shows that no one can name a single one of the lionesses.

Maybe rename them to the Wrens - have just got a pair nesting in our garden with a couple of fledglings. Or maybe the Robins or even Foxes ! Last time I looked lions were not a native species.

Wren nesting habits. What he does do, at the very start of the breeding season, is build up to half-a-dozen ‘cock’s nests’, which he then proudly shows off to his mate, much in the manner of an estate agent showing a client around a property. Not that the female is all that impressed – indeed, she will usually reject the first few nests he shows her, before finally deciding which is in the safest place and closest to the best food supply, to give her the greatest chance of raising her brood.

The media have gone overboard with the usage which is perhaps why its so grating. England is fine. If it's good enough for the men's team ....etc

No it’s not a harem. The lionesses control the pride and are dominant. The males are there to father cubs, provide child care, and defend cubs from other males. If they get too old or weak, it’s curtains for them. If food gets too scarce, they are killed and eaten first. Male cubs are evicted from the pride at a young age and have to wander around as nomads looking for a pride to join. Most male lions form coalitions of 2-3 males that then try to take over a pride with displays of strength by beating resident males of a pride. The lionesses are not emtionally attached to their male lions….younger/stronger is better. New males will kill male cubs but often spare female cubs.
https://nypost.com/2018/09/07/pack-of-lionesses-stage-coup-against-king-of-the-pride/

Another article
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/lion-pride-family-dynamics-females

And let’s not forget that the native British cave lioness was 25% bigger than todays African lions :) The first one is the British (well…Eurasian…they were all over including Britain)
https://www.lioden.com/topic.php?id=304429397393

So what's a better one?

Everyone is quick to say it's a stupid name but nobody has come up with an alternative that has national connection and isn't already being used (like the Roses which is already used for rugby and netball)

No but they are our national animal and a national symbol which is why the national team are named for them

Blimey thanks for the info. That's brutal almost as shocking when my resident vixen was seen in my garden with the hind legs and tail of a fox that had probably been sliced in 2 on the railway and then had one of her cubs running around the garden with a tail. Thought probably to have been her daughter who she had pushed out from the den and stolen her cubs to add to her own. It certainly ain't Disney out there in the animal kingdom for sure. !

Does it have to have a name? Plenty of teams don't have name and are doing OK.

Lionesses just sounds made up and last minute, it has not been a thing until fairly recently. The fact male team are 3 Lions or whatever which as someone pointed out ehre hardly anyone uses doesn't mean the female team needs to have a bizarre equivalent.

It should just be "The England Female Football Team" or something like that.

Women’s football teams have names and Lionesses is as good as any. It’s irrelevant whether men’s teams have names (some do some don’t). Women’s football doesn’t have to follow what the men’s game does, it forges its own path.