Bank Insisting I tell them why I am making a Payment to my Daughter

[Gaggley]

I usually do my banking online but thought it would be easier to set up a standing order by calling First Direct today. After going through security, I was asked a number of questions about whether I had been forced to do this, had I been told to download software, was anyone watching me online etc. This is irritating, as it is incredibly unlikely that anyone who was being scammed would say yes, but I answered them none the less.

I was then asked how I had been given the bank details. I said that I had made the transfer before, but still had to give specific details as to how my daughter had given me the bank details, that I had successfully made manual transfers to multiple times over many years. After we'd got past this, I was then told I had to tell them why I was paying money to my daughter. I declined to answer, and was prevented from setting up a standing order. Complaints department confirmed that this was their procedure and they were knowingly preventing me from moving my own money around.

I asked them how much fraud they could quantify had been prevented by these arbitratry measures, they could not answer. But if I had done this myself online, then I would not have to justify my own decisions, could just do it at the drop of a hat. Bloody annoying. But a real problem for people who can't manage to use online services, who are forced to give up their privacy by rules like this.

Does anyone have a bank that will allow you to make transactions over the phone without justifying how they spend their own money, as I would like to switch to them?

What sum did you plan to transfer? I think it's good that they are checking that you've not been scammed (a popular scam involves scammers pretending to be your adult child) If the figure is over £10k (?) I think that they have to ask for money laundering regulations.

Why didn’t you just set up the standing order online?
i understand some people cannot use online services but… you can? Why would you choose to do it over the phone?

oh, and they have to ask as if you set it up online then you usually have to read a disclaimer and then if you continue, it’s your own fault. But setting it up over the phone places more liability on the bank as they have helped you to do it, and if they didn’t check and get all the facts to prevent fraud or scams then they can get the blame.

Or you could have explained why you’re setting up the standing order. People are scammed by their own kids or people pretending to be them etc. if you just explained that your daughter needs topping up each month at the moment, or whatever they would have let you set it up.

When they asked you the reason for the transfer could you not have just said "a gift"? That's hardly a breach of privacy is it?

I think checking that people aren't being pressured or scammed sounds like a good thing really.

Why can't you just give them a made up reason if you don't want them to know the truth.

Banks are damned if they do and damned if they don't. They have to do some due diligence to avoid people being defrauded. Why would you not answer in very general terms?

They are just following the ML regulations and trying to protect you - why are you being so difficult about it?

I can see the bank's POV here. No matter how hard they try to prevent people bring scammed (including by family members) , they end up being expected to reimburse people most of the time.

Just set up the SO online, surely?

Why didn't you just set the standing order up online
It takes seconds so not sure why you think it would be easier to phone. You say you are used to doing online banking. Seems to me you just caused yourself a load off problems by being g difficult 😕

Well about 7 years ago I was buying a holiday home in France and when I tried to transfer money across for completion my bank refused to let me send it in one day. They would only allow to transfer £20k a day as a daily limit, so It would have taken me over a week of transferring £20k everyday and I had to grovel to the vendor as to why I was holding up completion. I was furious. I explained to my bank what the money was for. I said I could show them legal paperwork to show I was buying a house but they still refused. To avoid going over the week I had to ask my sister to send them £20k and I repaid it to her after the French house was paid for.

MIL is a computer phobe, won't entertain the idea of even trying. DH buys stuff for her online, she calls HSBC up and transfers the money.

It’s to protect people from being scammed.
Just tell them what they want to know, or make something up. Do you really think the call centre person (who is probably in India) actually cares why? It’s just their job.

It's possible there'd be a mandatory field online to fill in

I agree, it's annoying and ridiculous and not for your protection.

The bank are totally in the right and these are controls set up to reduce fraudulent activity.

With the proliferation of the ‘hi mum lost my phone here’s my new number can I have money’ scams it’s even better that they’re checking where you got the details from.

You would have been asked on line as part of the process and you'd have clicked and moved on, but they're covered because they asked and you answered.

They can't win, there have been cases when people have been scammed this way, when banks have had to reimburse for not making adequate checks. I guess the people who choose to do this by phone are often the more vulnerable too.

I can see it's annoying, but there's a scam going round where the scammer sends a message supposedly from a son or daughter who needs money urgently. This seems to be one of the big current scam trends, along with the fake parcel delivery one. It could be this kind of request has to pass extra security questions as a result? You can probably give quite a general answer (e.g. for a household purchase).

HSBC (which FD is part of) have had massive frauds whereby parents have been deceived by fraudsters pretending to be their children. All it takes is for a fraudster to switch a person’s number to them for them to take over your finances - this is easy as most mobile phone providers have extremely lax security processes.

I would have just lied.

They'll probably shut your account now because of your non-compliance.

I haven’t spoken to my bank to transfer funds to my DDs but I would have said I’m sending money for food.

I know it is extremely frustrating. Few years ago I was abroad using my credit card. Instead of requesting the retailer to call they declined the payment then called me an hour later to check, by which time DH had paid for his own present 🤦‍♀️

I don’t think the bank did anything wrong. Just tell them it’s for your daughter for X reason.

The bank has responsibility for catching money laundering and also protecting people who may be scammed.

I recently used Barclays to transfer £15K to my mum as she didn’t have quite enough for the auction property she was buying (auction property required completion within 60 days and she hadn’t sold her house at that point). No questions were asked by the bank but her solicitor wanted proof of the source of the money.

Barclays transfer limit is £50K, so when we wanted to pay off the majority of our mortgage, the fraud team blocked us from transferring more or doing 2 transactions (several times!) and my DH had to phone multiple times to get it all transferred. I know it’s annoying, but it was a lot of money and I didn’t resent them asking and ensuring it really was us.

I think NatWest has a reasonable limit, having had the loan repaid when mum’s house sale completed.

You would have got a shocking exchange rate too.
Most people use a currency exchange company eg Smart or Transfer wise.

If a customer transfers money to a scammer and their bank doesn't make sure the customer knows what they are doing and that everything is legit then the bank can be liable.