Bank Insisting I tell them why I am making a Payment to my Daughter

[Gaggley]

I usually do my banking online but thought it would be easier to set up a standing order by calling First Direct today. After going through security, I was asked a number of questions about whether I had been forced to do this, had I been told to download software, was anyone watching me online etc. This is irritating, as it is incredibly unlikely that anyone who was being scammed would say yes, but I answered them none the less.

I was then asked how I had been given the bank details. I said that I had made the transfer before, but still had to give specific details as to how my daughter had given me the bank details, that I had successfully made manual transfers to multiple times over many years. After we'd got past this, I was then told I had to tell them why I was paying money to my daughter. I declined to answer, and was prevented from setting up a standing order. Complaints department confirmed that this was their procedure and they were knowingly preventing me from moving my own money around.

I asked them how much fraud they could quantify had been prevented by these arbitratry measures, they could not answer. But if I had done this myself online, then I would not have to justify my own decisions, could just do it at the drop of a hat. Bloody annoying. But a real problem for people who can't manage to use online services, who are forced to give up their privacy by rules like this.

Does anyone have a bank that will allow you to make transactions over the phone without justifying how they spend their own money, as I would like to switch to them?

Surely it's easier to just make up a reason than to be transferred around making complaints etc.

my oh my, bank staff HAVE to ask these questions to help customers, i used to work in a high street bank and we'd get many annoyed customers like yourself and to be honest, i just took longer to ask the questions. They're told to ask you, usually over a certain amount, to show they're doing everything to protect customers from fraud so they can't blame the bank if scammed and i would say the rate i actually quite high. One that always stands out is a customer coming in to send money for a car. On further investigation by me, the 'car' was real but the sale wasn't. She was being scammed and i had to phone the police. She STILL asked me to send the money because she'd lose the car. Victims of fraud find it hard to believe.
People have lost house deposits because they've been scammed and sent new details.
We had a another posting a rental property but it wasn't, the house was actually for sale and the scammers had stolen the house photos from online to make it seem like a rental.
I'd rather have 10 customers be slightly annoyed at being asked and protect the one vulnerable customer and anyone being asked should feel the same. They're hardly overly intrusive. Do online banking if it bothers you that much.

You can't even pay in coppers these days without being quizzed! I git quizzed on why I wanted to swap a bunch of £20 notes for £10s (they 20's were going out and I use 10's to give the kids their pocket money). Tried to buy a car recently and can only transfer £2k a day. Luckily we had a credit card to put it on!

I agree that’s way too invasive OP. Banks are getting more authoritarian. At the end of the day it’s your money.

You can’t always set up standing orders online. I know for my father’s RBS account I had to call to set it up.

I hadn't even got to the amount, so it was nothing to do with that. It will only be for a small amount as it happens.

Just for all the people who are giving out incorrect financial advice (very dangerous to do this when you clearly don't know what you are talking about) - there is no gift tax in the UK. We can all give as much as we like to whomever we like without paying any tax.

If you die, then it is possible that gifts made within 7 years might be considered as part of the estate. Gifts made out of income are not included. Gifts of certain values (the oft quoted £3000) are exempt, but this is irrelevant, given that I wasn't asking for financial advice (and wouldn't do so from unqualified strangers online), my estate will be under £1,000,000 (as the vast majority of estates are) and I'm happy to pay my fair share of taxes in general, as it is part of living in a civilised country.

To people saying I should make something up, I'm not prepared to lie in order to be able to access my own money. This is indeed what people would do that are being coerced by relatives or strangers, and is why this made up rule is completely pointless, as people who would be helped by it would just 'make something up'.

I can't set up a new standing order to a personal account online for some reason, which is why I was ringing up. I'd previously been making manual payments each month, presumably because I'd had a similar experience a couple of years ago. I'm switching to a different bank, and will gain a better service as well as £200 for switching.

People have lost house deposits because they've been scammed and sent new details.

Yes they have but that does not involve a bank it’s because solicitors refuse to set up online payment systems so the money can be moved securely.

Telling a customer they can’t have a standing order for their DD because they decline to tell you exactly why is outrageous.

At least some standing orders in some banks cannot be set up online so that doesn’t help.

Sounds normal.

My DM recently sent me £200 cash via special delivery through the Post Office. The PO asked her what was in the envelope, she told them so she would be covered in case it got lost, and then she was asked a dozen questions about why she was sending it.

I think it's a good idea tbh.

I've had a lot of problems with Barclays paying for items I'm buying from Europe - fairly high value musical instruments (e.g. Czech guitar maker), paying back some Dutch friends who paid for everything on holiday together in Spain, paying a medical bill for my sister in France and also buying her a present - actually just paying for the insurance on her van as a birthday gift - on a few of these I went through my Wise account to convert to Euros.... I've had problems with about 6 payments this year - all around £500-£2.5k - Barclays blocked one payment then approved it after contact with me (phoned me) then blocked it again... so I'm now looking for somewhere to move a significant amount of my accessible savings - Barclays are not very keen on me using Wise but I've been making these kinds of transactions for several years now and it just doesn't get any easier.

There is a limit re avoiding paying inheritance tax within 7 years or thereabouts, but not in general.

Many parents with students will have set up SOs for students equating to more than £3k with no issues at all, for example.

You cut off your nose to spite your face!! These checks are there for a reason. I often read stories in the financial sections of newspapers of people being scammed out of very large sums of money and the scammers are becoming ever more sophisticated and succeeding with younger more tech savvy. We should be glad banks are protecting us, even if it's a bit annoying.

I was once asked why I was withdrawing cash (it was quite a big amount, but not 10k!). I said “To buy stuff” and the woman behind the counter took a while to accept that I didn’t have any particular plans, I was just going to fritter it away on whatever took my fancy (I use this as my default now, though I rarely have to transfer so much).

I find it very intrusive and I’m not sure how much I accept that it’s necessary to avoid scams. I’d like to see some research into how effective this sort of approach is. Given how untrustworthy banks have been, it’s pretty laughable that your supposed to trust them with details you might consider private. And I think it should be possible to waive your right to be recompensed if you are scammed and they didn’t spot it because you didn’t answer their questions.

But even if the scamming thing wasn’t an issue, money laundering regulations might end up requiring some of the same.

NB for all the people who think this is helping customers, it really isn't. The aim for all the extra questions (which I answered multiple, e.g. was I being coerced, being monitored, forced to download software etc), are to protect the bank from being found liable for people being defrauded. They know that they prevent little to no fraud, but if people have lied, as people are suggesting I do, then the bank will not have to repay the defrauded customers.

It is completely irrelevant to credit card and debit card fraud, which people are also mentioning. They have already taken me through security. I have attorney over my own financial affairs. I have already made payments to these bank details on numerous previous occasions. I have already confirmed that this is being done of my own free will. I was not asked how much I wanted to transfer. So how is this 'protecting' me?

They are intrusively forcing me to tell them how I am spending my own money. I said I was giving the money to my daughter. I was being forced to give reasons why. I declined. They decided to stop me spending my own money. I decided to switch to another bank. That's how a free society works. If you are happy to have such basic freedoms removed, without any knock on beneficial effects (as there is no proof that this reduces fraud, given how easy and obvious it is to bypass them by lying or giving another answer), I feel sorry for you that you are so apathetic and passive.

Quick one.

Bank is right- they are currently spending money on THIS exact scam so people are aware. Someone contacts you (parent) pretending to be your DC and say 'mum' or 'dad' they have lost their phone can you please send money to this account etc etc. I have been hearing these ads warning about this for the past 6 months or so.

It depends how much you also want to transfer. You don't say. Up to £20 is fine. more than that, they are right to ask.

I realised after a year that a company in Switzerland ( I may have purchased something from them in the past- I do a lot of online shopping) set up a standing order on my credit card ( I don't use it and bank could see my healthy bank balance) for $10 a month. By the time I saw it, it was almost over a year and half and the bank look at my everything and repaid it in full- around £150. it may not seem much, but that's bank's money being wasted. I then promise to check all my bank accounts every single month- I was embarrassed I didn't spot this sooner.

If you are often reading stories about people being scammed, why do you think these checks are effective? That makes it sound like they’re just arse covering.

I feel your pain OP. I do all my banking online and have several accounts and some (I’m looking at you Starling) ask those questions when trying to make large payments.

My DC recently turned 18 and so took control of their child trust fund. NS&I made it so bloody difficult for them to access their money. One ended up having to have a cheque sent out! The other had to send in proof her current account was hers before they’d transfer online.

I appreciate they are risk averse and want to protect themselves against fraud reimbursement claims but it’s gone too far in my view. I refuse to use banks who enforce the use of 2 factor verification / card readers.

Because if your legitimate answer was "I've paid money into her account multiple times, but I can never remember the details, so she emails me every time to tell me the account number" and you don't see how that could put you at risk of a scam then you're the EXACT reason why they ask these questions.

The same way that when you want to transfer a house deposit to a solicitor they will tell you in advance that they will never email you with new account details.

It's frustrating but by refusing to tell them you just created an extra job for yourself.

Don't go to Lloyds. They refused me access to my account (actually blocked it) because I asked for some cash at a branch. The staff had to call HQ and I had to answer very intrusive questions in front of other staff and customers. I was actually in tears as they said they wouldn't unblock it until I had answered all questions to their satisfaction. This was for less than £2K, and was last month.

And they wonder why I wanted cash...

You can write customer declined to answer and the customer will then sign their signature to say if they become a victim of fraud its tough luck. We had a man withdraw 20k in cash, he refused to answer. Just said it was his money and he wanted it out, fair enough. You can access and do things but if it goes wrong, it's on you. This obviously wouldn't apply on the phone though.

They are damned if the do; damned if they don't. I'm asked several times by my bank if the transfer I am making is not one where I am being coerced ; if it's a genuine request. I have no objections as it means they are looking out for me as well as themselves, I pay trades and my kids by transfer and I'm grateful the bank does ask. And the same thing happened when I set up a direct debit.

They were protecting you from a known scam.

If they had failed to protect you and you had been scammed, they could have been held liable. They are a business, and unsurprisingly don’t like losing money.

I was going to recommend my bank. I transferred out over £30k this morning across 4 different (new) payments. I had no issues making the transactions. But … my bank is First Direct 😅

Apethetic and passive? Oh give over!! Are you sure you don't want to go the whole hog and call us Sheeple?

YABU for thinking it would be easier to ring them than just doing it online.

If you don't want banks to ask the questions to prevent fraud campaign to get the liability to repay fraud victims removed. Can't have it both ways.

Nigel is that you ????😂