Bank Insisting I tell them why I am making a Payment to my Daughter

[Gaggley]

I usually do my banking online but thought it would be easier to set up a standing order by calling First Direct today. After going through security, I was asked a number of questions about whether I had been forced to do this, had I been told to download software, was anyone watching me online etc. This is irritating, as it is incredibly unlikely that anyone who was being scammed would say yes, but I answered them none the less.

I was then asked how I had been given the bank details. I said that I had made the transfer before, but still had to give specific details as to how my daughter had given me the bank details, that I had successfully made manual transfers to multiple times over many years. After we'd got past this, I was then told I had to tell them why I was paying money to my daughter. I declined to answer, and was prevented from setting up a standing order. Complaints department confirmed that this was their procedure and they were knowingly preventing me from moving my own money around.

I asked them how much fraud they could quantify had been prevented by these arbitratry measures, they could not answer. But if I had done this myself online, then I would not have to justify my own decisions, could just do it at the drop of a hat. Bloody annoying. But a real problem for people who can't manage to use online services, who are forced to give up their privacy by rules like this.

Does anyone have a bank that will allow you to make transactions over the phone without justifying how they spend their own money, as I would like to switch to them?

I bank online and any transfer I make I am asked to give a reason. As I’m not doing anything underhand it doesn’t bother me. I couldn’t be bothered fussing over something so trivial.

as there is no proof that this reduces fraud, given how easy and obvious it is to by

what...?

I have personally stopped many scams. Some involving people's life savings all due to tactful questioning about the payments. Hell, only a year ago I stopped someone losing a house deposit of around 90K when sending money to a 'solicitor' due to an email hack... ALL BY ASKING QUESTIONS 🤣

I’ve had bank accounts with all the major UK banks, and Barclays are easily the most obstructive and unhelpful when it comes to transferring or just paying large amounts from their accounts.

One of the branchmanagers when we were in trying to persuade them to let us move some of our own money to another savings institution told us that they are ‘ incentivised’ to hang on to as much deposit as they can ( he gave us a bankers draft for the money, I suspect he was planning to leave).

I have no problem with security checks, btw.

I was going to recommend my bank. I transferred out over £30k this morning across 4 different (new) payments. I had no issues making the transactions. But … my bank is First Direct 😅

I paid similar amounts to a builder yesterday too, it's easy to do online, as I could have done for a manual payment to my daughter. However for my own convenience, I wanted to set up a regular payment, which I couldn't do online. I wasn't giving them any new details, as they already have them, as I've made manual transfers to the same bank details dozens of times. I had also confirmed that my daughter had told me the details orally, they insisted on that too. But there is no reason why I should have to tell them what my daughter is spending the money on, or why I am giving it to her. It is my choice!

I take on board the point about a 'current scam' related to parents making payments to children, but again this would not stop someone who wanted to make a transfer, as long as they were happy to say what it was for. So if I'd said "for my daughter to spend on holiday" it would have happened already. But apparently this is something I should be grateful for.

NB never used the term 'sheeple' and only ever read it on here, to do with Covid, which is completely irrelevant to this issue. I do care about civil liberties, particularly when they are being infringed in order to benefit the banks, which is the point of these questions - to ensure that people who are defrauded are liable for it themselves, rather than the banks. If we give up our basic freedoms so easily then one day we might regret it. But clearly having an opinion on this must mean I am covid conspiracist, LOL!

OP, I know it’s not the point of your thread at all but the threshold for inheritance tax isn’t £1,000,000; it’s £325,000 unless you leave your home to your children, in which case it rises to £500,000. https://www.gov.uk/inheritance-tax

You’ve missed the point entirely. By asking those questions they have the answers on file. It means they’ve taken adequate steps to prevent the fraud and therefore aren’t liable if it is a fraudulent transaction. But also, they do make a difference. Because people who are genuinely being defrauded wouldn’t make something up. And if the answers were suspicious bank won’t approve.

First Direct call centre is in Leeds.

I sacked them off as I got fed up of their shit service. Wanted me to go through a complete new application for an ISA because they had frozen my existing one due to no activity on it for 4 months. Went somewhere else for savings (better rate), took all my money out and did a current account transfer. I hate them with a passion.

Like I said - they are asking the questions to attempt to protect themselves, not me. Glad you agree.

The IHT limit for a married couple who leave their estates to each other, and own their own home is £1M. Click on your own link to see this.

Or you could have paid £25 to transfer up to £1 million

Who did you switch to? I've already switched my sole account but would like to switch the joint account too, so recommendations are welcome.

I couldn't even deposit £20 cash into my adult daughter's bank account in a branch of her bank, FFS. Who is being protected there?

Maybe if people did not expect to be reimbursed for what is 99% of their own stupidity, sensible people wouldn't have to jump through these hoops.

I actually think instead of making banks more and more responsible for idiots, said idiots should have to face the consequences of their stupidity meaning the rest of us can be allowed to function as sensible adults.

I have yet to see a genuine fraud case where with a bit of common sense it wasn't fairly suspicious.

If you want to live in a country with banking protections just in case you do something monumentally life changing or stupid while distracted or tired, etc. answer the questions. If you want to live in a country with robust laws about money laundering, answer the questions. Yes it's your money, no you do not a right to do with it as you wish. You can only use it as you wish within the law and to ensure that happens, questions have to be asked.

Firstly OP, I completely agree - if you don't like a service: move. I did. I highly recommend Starling.

I am curious though - without being specific could you not have just said 'I want to' or 'ongoing support during the CoL crisis' or were they being weird about such answers? I'm kinda with you if they were expecting absolute specificity - I have a standing order to my niece for, well, whatever the f**k she wants. Not sure how I'd explain that on the phone... bizarre.

Some of the fraudsters are their own staff.

Easier to deal with them if they are in the UK....

Which bank is not going to have these protections OP?

As you have observed, they do it to protect themselves as well as their more stupid/vulnerable customers, so I would be very surprised if any new bank does not also have this same process.

Agree with you op. Had this when I was buying a car. Wtf has it got to do with the bank how I spend my money.
Feels like an invasion of privacy, exercise in futility fraudsters are just going to lie and if you don’t want the bank to know, you’re going lie.

I was transferring money from my bank account to another bank and the transfer got blocked - spoke to the bank sorted out security and the money was transferred and they said it was now on the allowable transfer list. Did a another transfer a few days later and got blocked again - spoke to them again and all sorted, then a few days later another transfer got blocked - went to the other bank and paid in the full amount by cheque (1st time I had used a cheque for several years) - all transferred across with no issues.

@JenWillsiam thank you for saving me typing exactly that. OP is being massively UR. bank is 100% right. Even with ALL your answer, they could STILL refuse to set it up as they have more knowledge of what to look out for etc than you. You are not a bank. I understand your frustrations but that's part of life.@Gaggley

answers- I need to go.

Tbh, I think that people who phone up to do it are more likely to be incompetent, so they will have more stringent checks in place. Yes, I know that some people who have capacity will use the phone, but it’s still more likely in that cohort.

Whenever I make up a payment or set regular payment online I am asked why I am making the transfer (you get a range of options eg paying for a service, transfer to my own account etc). I have a number of accounts with different banks. They all do it.

And a number of banks won't let you set up new payments over the phone at all so I'd watch for that if you are switching because of this.

I am already dreading Qs of where I got my £400-£500 cash from when I go to deposit it once or twice although I had had over 10K cash gone through the bank and about £8K of that directly to the card it will be coming from (foreign but mine and had had it for 25 years and always sent money to it through the bank and they have records of 20 years) and they will see I was abroad for 5 months ( nursing my elderly mum at home). I will not make more than £2k in (it might even be less) total so I hope that's ok. I need to pay off my credit card which I had had to withdraw cash from when abroad- I went to 8 different countries in 1 month and I prefer credit cards for travel.

I withdrew local currency from my UK card and the foreign bank told me (helpfully) I can use the foreign card to withdraw UK £ in Uk.

I will be asking if I can make the next payment at their self-service counter inside the bank as I have never used it before as I worry my money will never make it to my account. lol

But I am a pro at online banking through my app.

Sorry I can’t make any suggestions OP but I also had all these ridiculous questions with the co-operative to make a payment to… MYSELF.